Posted on 08/18/2019 7:05:12 PM PDT by Al Hitan
Today the Church remembers with thanksgiving the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God. Historically, this day was understood to mark her dormition, or "falling asleep," which was most anciently regarded as her natural death and burial. From early on, however, the Church considered that she who conceived and gave birth to the very God of very God, by His Word and Holy Spirit, was also resurrected and ascended into heaven, in both body and soul, soon after her death. There is no word of Holy Scripture to teach these traditions as doctrine, but we should not be too quick to dismiss them as merely pious devotion. Such piety, at its heart, is a confession of that which is the Church's faith in Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary's Son, our Savior and our God.
St. Mary is uniquely honored among all the saints of God in Christ, not only by the Church, but first of all by the Lord God Himself. He has had mercy upon her, blessed her with His grace and favor, and chosen her above all other women to bear the almighty and eternal Son of God. She is rightly called, and truly is, the Mother of God; for her own dear Son, the Fruit of her womb, is indeed the one true God, begotten of the Father from all eternity. It is from her flesh and blood that the Lord has taken for Himself a true and natural body, bone of her bone and flesh of her flesh, so that henceforth He is true Man, the perfect second Adam, our elder Brother, our kinsman Redeemer, the promised Seed of the Woman, by whom we are reconciled to God. As the ancient fathers of the Church confessed, God thus became like us, in order that we become like Him, by grace. It is that great salvation that we celebrate in commemorating any of the saints, and in particular the Blessed Virgin Mother of God, St. Mary.
She is an icon of the Church, a living Sacrament of Christ, and a beautiful example of faith, of all the true children of father Abraham. Her body was comprehended by the Word and Spirit of God to become the tangible means by which the Son of God became flesh and was given to us, and not only for us, but for the life of the world. It is His body, conceived and born of St. Mary, that our sins and sorrows did carry. It is a human body, like our own in every way, save without sin, because He was born of this woman (born under the Law to redeem us). Thus do we recognize in her an archetype of the Blessed Sacrament of our Lord's body and blood.
What is more, in conceiving and giving birth to the Son of God, she is a type of the Church, the holy mother who surely gives birth to the sons of God in Christ. We too have been conceived and given new birth by the same Word and Spirit of the same Holy Triune God that overshadowed the Blessed Virgin Mary and knit within her womb the incarnation of the only-begotten Son. Thus are we, like Him, "born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (St. John 1:13).
Along with her vocation as the woman by whom the Son of God was given to and for the world, St. Mary also stands with us as a living member of the Church, the Body of Christ. When the Word of the Gospel was announced to her, she received that Word in faith, obtained in her by the mercies of God, and meekly bowed her head in humble trust: "Let it be to me according to Thy Word." Blessed is she who has heard the Word of God and kept it, who treasured it in her heart, who believed that there would surely be a fulfillment of all that God had spoken to her. In all of this, St. Mary is one of us, a faithful disciple of her own dear Son, and among that great cloud of witnesses with which we are surrounded, of that blest communion, fellowship divine.
When the Church in pious tradition has considered St. Mary to be resurrected and ascended to heaven, already in both body and soul, it is a confession of faith in that which Christ Jesus our Lord has accomplished for us and for all by His victorious Cross, Resurrection and Ascension. We may indeed contemplate that she by whom the Lord became like us, should exemplify the way in which we all become like Him, recreated in the glorious Image of the Man from heaven. Of course, we do not rest faith upon the tradition of St. Mary's dormition and assumption into heaven; faith clings to Jesus Christ alone and finds true peace and Sabbath rest forever in Him. But what we envision concering St. Mary, we understand to be the Church's hope precisely in Christ our Lord, our Savior and our God. For we know that He is the Resurrection and the Life, and that she who believes in Him will live even if she dies; yes, and everyone who lives and believes in Him will never die.
We believe, teach and confess with the absolute certainty of faith that St. Mary is the Mother of God; that the almighty and eternal Son of the living God was born of this woman, born under the Law, to redeem us who were under the Law. In celebrating that marvelous incarnation of God the Son, in which He died and rose again for us men and our salvation, we may also celebrate proleptically the resurrection of the body that all His saints share with Him by grace through faith in the Gospel. And in that glorious light, we sing: "O higher than the cherubim, more glorious than the seraphim, lead their praises: 'Alleluia!' Thou bearer of the eternal Word, most gracious magnify the Lord: 'Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!"
Lord and God are two different words in the Greek.
Kurios does not translate as *God*.
Catholics just love their labels, don’t they?
Makes it so much easier to finger point and condemn.
+1
Actually, it is Roman Catholicism that places limits on what He can do.
The Immaculate Conception is a primary example.
Wow, you’re really looking desperate. You took four posts to respond to just one of mine and more than once you resort to silly insults because you apparently can’t make an actual argument against what I posted.
“LOL, you can prove none of it.”
You can’t disprove any of it. You keep showing that. Thanks.
“Prove your assertion that Jesus took on flesh from MAry.”
Did you or did you not take on flesh from your mother? Every baby does. Jesus was a baby in Mary’s womb. Refute that. You’ll fail.
“You want an example of Catholic presumption?... “He took on humanity - from His mother, Mary.””
It’s logic, not presumption. Did you or did you not take on flesh from your mother?
Scripture denies her perpetual virginity as claimed by Roman Catholicism.
You’re the only one making it complicated. Mary gave birth to Jesus. She is His mother. Nothing can change that. Jesus is God. Mary is the mother of God. It’s that simple.
You have refuted none of this.
No one here is claiming Mary gave birth to the Trinity.
“Mary is the mother of Jesus.. she gave birth to Him... she did not give birth to God.”
You’re saying Jesus isn’t God. You do not believe Christ is God.
“To say she is God’s mother puts God in a lower sphere... needing or having a mother.. it didnt happen.”
Jesus walked in a “lower sphere”. He got hungry, tired, sweated, bled, died. Have you forgotten all of this? You had better read Philippians 2:6-8.
And not very skilled Nestorians either!
im not catholic.. i dont agree with catholics beliefs. mary is not put in the same position as catholics do. i dont ask a priest for forgiveness. i go by the king james bible and talk to my Lord. ive been through the worst hurt.. and the lord is with me. ive witnessed the holy spitit.. i hang on because He hangs on to me. its personal..me and my lord.
post 73 was written by my #3 son. he knows what he talks... hes exceptional
placemarker
Your logic means Jesus existed before Jesus existed - which is an impossibility. (NOTE: bold emphasis and sentence break mine)
*****
All the people said, say what?????
Dude....you've really gone off the rails on this one.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God John 1:1-2
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:14-18 NASB
Meant to ping you on this one.
The Holy Spirit had to add DNA to Jesus body for the incarnation or He would have been a girl. Mary has no x chromosome to give anyone. To say Jesus took on Mary’s flesh is not accurate. The genetic make up of Jesus human body is not important and frankly out of bounds to speculate on as far as I’m concerned. The important fact is while fully God He also became fully Human.
Right on MomMD.
God tells us what He wants us to know and what we need to know to be thoroughly equipped for every good work, and life and godliness.
Honestly, there’s enough in the Scripture we’ve been given to keep us busy in growing in Christlikeness and ministering to others to keep someone busy for a dozen lifetimes without getting into idle speculations about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (or the immaculate conception, or other Marian nonsense)
When God shows someone some error in their life (*cough* call no man father *cough*) that they need to deal with and a person refuses to go there, then God is not going to give any more revelation.
If a person won’t obey what’s been already revealed, then there’s no point in giving more for them to disobey.
And that may be an act of mercy on God’s part as then they have less to be accountable for when at the Bema Seat for believers, or the Judgment for unbelievers.
You are, by claiming Mary is the mother of God...
Jesus walked in a “lower sphere”. He got hungry, tired, sweated, bled, died. Have you forgotten all of this? You had better read Philippians 2:6-8.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus, prior to becoming a baby in Mary's womb was in the form of God (vs 6)...
He took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men (vs 7)...
Who made Jesus in the likeness of men, Mary or God??? Vs 7 and 8 say God created the flesh of Jesus, not Mary...
How is it that God in the flesh could suffer pain and death??? It is because Jesus took on a vile, corrupt body like ours...
“You want an example of Catholic presumption?... “He took on humanity - from His mother, Mary.””
It’s logic, not presumption. Did you or did you not take on flesh from your mother?
God does not operate on the premise of your logic...There is no human logic, ever, involved in understanding the scriptures...
Exactly...If they dump out the milk, God won't give 'em any meat...
In many ways, Mary is the equivalent of a surrogate mother. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit “overshadowed” Mary for her to conceive. This statement has many possibilities, including giving birth to a child with none of her genes.
So, the classic Greek word Theotokos is more accurate, as it mean God-bearer. It doesn’t necessarily mean that God originated from Mary, just as a surrogate mother is not the origin of the baby she births.
Jesus of Nazareth was born.
The Second Person of the Trinity was not born but always was.
Thus, Jesus only existed at a certain point and not before.
Jesus did not exist until He took on flesh in Mary’s womb. The Second Person of the Trinity ALWAYS existed.
This isn’t hard. This is right out of John 1.
John 1: 1-3: In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came to be through him,
and without him nothing came to be.
John 1:14: And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth.
The Second Person of the Trinity BECAME FLESH. Only after John says that does he refer to “Jesus Christ” in verse 17.
Perhaps you’re one of the “less orthodox” referred to below:
Douglas McCready, in his analysis and defence of the pre-existence of Christ, notes that whereas the preexistence of Christ “is taken for granted by most orthodox Christians, and has been since New Testament times”, during the past century the doctrine has been increasingly questioned by less orthodox theologians and scholars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence_of_Christ
Once again we see how easily anti-Catholics fall into error or heresy in their desperate bid to attack the Catholic faith.
You're words, vlad....which btw you will see again in future conversations. You're squirming vlad.
And here I thought ebb was way off base with the scapular.
Dude, you've surpassed him! But then again, you at one time did wear the false scapular/idol.
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