The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

and even though few spoke Latin at the time, as it was the language of the elite and sophisticates,

Are you serious? By 367 C.E. Rome had been the preeminent power in the Mediterranean for several hundred years. What language do you think people were speaking, if not Latin? In the Eastern portion of the empire, Greek was still no doubt the dominant tongue, but empire-wide, Latin would without question have been the common language.

[american colleen]

"Can I prove all of this? No, no more then you can prove it’s not the way it happened. This is just my gut feeling and the only way I can explain why the RCC has such disdane and little use for the Holy Bible, written by the God they claim is their boss."

Sad the length some of us have to go to justify their own beliefs. Ignore history at your peril.

[biblewonk]

There ARE pagan influences. The big complaint for many pagans about Christianity is that it is too sexist. There is no female goddess. RC's have handled that to the satisfaction of millions of Marians.

If there are it has not been proven. Taking a hymn about Mary and mis-construing the poetic gardening references to try to say it is pagan is just nonsense. If you have some proof of the pagan influence, bring it on.

This is kind of like not seeing the forest because the trees are in the way. You are looking for some reference in a hymn to Mary that comes from paganism and I'm saying that the hymn itself is the problem. You just don't sing hymns to people or things that you are not worshipping.

[JohnnyM]

"What is the symbolism of the fig tree ?"

Doesn't the fig tree point to Israel?? When Christ cursed the fig tree and made it die, it was symbolic of the hearts of the Jewish people at the time. The flowering of the fig tree would then also be symbolic of a "re awakening" of the nation of Israel. Which could either point to their nation being renewed in 1948 or to a heart awakening towards the risen Son, Christ Jesus.

JM

[Invincibly Ignorant]

"I see dead people."

My son looked at me one time and said "I see old people". :-)

[Havoc]

We began by disputing over the state of men after death. If Moses and Elijah were dead and gone, then what did Peter and the others see at the Transfirguration. A vision? A vision of what? Of the glory of Jesus, that much is sure. So why did they also see the Old Testament saints? Were these holograms of their former living selves? Mere illusions? The actual spirits?

We began the current issue by you stating that Jesus was talking to two dead saints. We reviewed scripture and find it was a vision. So, you are trying to construe a vision into the actual presence of two dead people AND a conversation. Scripture doesn't bear it out. But, see that's in your literature too - so your clergy is asking you to push false information - again.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Given that the gospels are teaching something quite different than Pharisaic Judaism, and the two groups were hardly friendly, its not surprising. But I think the Pharisees get a bad rap. The word "Pharisee" as used today is synonymous with "hypocrite". I'm sure some Pharisees fit that description. I'm also sure that some did not.

The pharisees were great. They are responsible for preserving the written Word of God and other writings from the time of exile to before Christ was born. It all went down hill tho when they got power hungry and thought themselves to be "infallible". (See modern day catholoicism) :-)

[al_c]

Can Jones actually do it? I think he should sell to Mark Cuban.

Not a bad idea! ;o) I wonder if Cuban is fanatical about football as he is basketball.

Probably not.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Hey wonk, over on the catholic caucas thread they have just picked Mary as their patron saint of their caucas and are doing what they tell us they don't do, saying and quoting prayers to her. Go take a look see.

BigMack

[al_c]

Are you counting Mack and I as 1 or 2:)?

Even counting Mack as two and you as one ... y'all still don't come close. Texan Neverending Story contibutors include me, RobbyS, sinkspur, Theresa, hopefulpilgrim, First Conservative, and roachie (I may be wrong about roachie posting to this thread, though).

[nate4one]

What about those who died(fell asleep) before Christ came again? Were they to be less than those living at that time?

Before Christ had all under His feet (death), man has a "dead" soul. Those who were saved were considered to be "alive" with Christ, but could not rise to their inheritance until the return of Christ (Rev 20, 1 Cor 15, Daniel 12). Therefore Paul refered to them as asleep.

I think we can safely assume that Paul never knew that Christ would never come before Paul died, much less that He would not have come after nearly two millenia. That's an awfully long sleep!

This is the difference between me and everyone else on this thread, Paul could not have been mistaken. The fact that he taught a 1st century return, along with John and Christ Himself, is because they were not mistaken.

Joh 16:13 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Were they preaching all truth? If so, why does everyone here insist they were mistaken, or a "little off" in their timing on Christ's return.

[al_c]

I have no idea what you are talking about. "Rebuilding" implies that you eventually get better!

I would expect such a comment from a Skins fan. As bad as the Boys are and continue to be, they can still beat the Skins every time. ;o)

Seriously, though ... I think this will be the year that things start to turn around. Dallas has a lot of young players that were just getting their feet wet last season and they still have a few strong veteran leaders to guide them. I can't say much about the head coach other than he is a great motivator, but he does have a good staff now. Should be an interesting season coming up.

[nate4one]

I do not consider this a debate between you and me.
Your Pride in declaring yourself a winner is just that: a sin.

Saying the first sentance, before the second sentance I quote form you here, is judging yourself for the same mistake. You have called me "wrong" WITH NO BIBLICAL BASIS this whole time. And now you cop out in the face of Peters words:

1Pe 3:15 - but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;

You pray for my error and have failed, BIBLICALLY to show why I am in error!!

I pray G-d, He will have the Ru'akh haKodesh remove the scales from your eyes.
Until then I will no longer respond to your posts.

I appreciate your concern but you are doing it again! (Matt 6).

And as I see it, you are the blind man, so we are at a prideful impass I guess, eh?!

[biblewonk]

When did they tell us they don't pray to her? They proudly do it all the time, hence my posts of their prayers.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

And as I see it, you are the blind man, so we are at a prideful impass I guess, eh?!

Does there exist a "preterism" thread somewhere? This stuff gets tiresome.

[pegleg]

If NCC’s understood the Church’s teaching regarding Latria, Hyperdulia, Dulia it would make sense to you. But since you don’t your comment doesn’t surprise me.

[al_c]

Glad to hear that all are okay. I will pray for y'all.

[nate4one]

Do you think that Jews should have to tolerate whatever atrocities the Palestinians choose because of your distorted view of supercessionist Christianity?

Absolutely NOT. Terrorism is weak, evil and Israel should woop it on until it stops without US interference!!
I did not advocate Palestine terrorism.

This is a hot issue and hard to look at with objective eyes.

Do you feel the American indians here have ANY gripe?

You mention Palestines fail to accept a 1948 peace and state. They wanted it all. But they wanted it all because it was all theirs before millions of Jewish nomads came walking in and forced their way into the region again!! So of course Palestinins wantt all their land back. Just as the Indians would like theirs back.

Where do we go from here?

I say Israel sets ONE treaty on the table offering a state and part of Jerusalem. Just like before. If Arafat disagrees, The US backs out, insures only Iraq and Palestine are involved, and let Israel bring peace to that area for us once and for all. (Build a really big wall aroun their whole land like Jericho.)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

If NCC’s understood the Church’s teaching regarding Latria, Hyperdulia, Dulia it would make sense to you. But since you don’t your comment doesn’t surprise me.

LOL. These foreign words are supposed to impress you boys. Remember "Dulia"? The latin word for "Venerate". If posted in another language you're supposed to feel inferior.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

They been saying it for the last year that they don't pray to Mary on here, been some mighty big threads about it, and now its just like it never happened? Move along nothing to see here?

BigMack