Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
The Greek word used in the verse is:
3705 horama hor'-am-ah
from 3708; something gazed at, i.e. a spectacle (especially supernatural):--sight, vision.
It is used 12 times in the New Testament, each time referring to a supernatural vision.
The same word is used here:
Act 12:8 And the angel said to him, Gird yourself and put on your sandals. And he did so. And he says to him, Throw your robe around you and follow me.
Act 12:9 And he went out and followed him. And he did not know that this happening through the angel was true, but thought he saw a vision.
Peter was led out of prison by an angel. It REALLY happened, but Peter thought it really wasn't happening...he thought it was JUST a vision.
Reggie seemed to be saying the opposite, that some misguided Catholics worship Mary in spite of the Catholic teaching.
Of course, it means nothing to you that I didn't "seem" to say that or anything close to that. Your world of "invention" results in statements such as this and, to you, it is perfectly normal. It isn't an outright lie, it is just your interpretation of what it "seemed" I was saying.
Listen, dude. I said "seemed" because I am expressing how I understood what you wrote. I do it as a courtesy. I put the word in there deliberately to account for the fact that I could have misunderstood you. By using it I avoid your accusations of "putting words in your mouth."
Your knee jerk reaction "The Catholic Church Teaches..." is nothing but hollow talk. What Catholics do is what is important, not what you say they should do. Your cavalier "they aren't Catholic" attitude is also hollow baloney. You had better hang onto the "CINO's", without them you would have no church you hypocrite.
You always say what we do is more important, but you are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. It is important to have standards, believe it or not. Most people your age come to realize this sooner or later.
Even if people fail to live up to them.
For the record I would be much happier with a decimated Church filed with true believers than the current situation with "Catholics for Free Choice" and other heretical nonsense masquerading as true Catholics.
SD
Are you saying that the church began saying mass in Latin so more people could understand it?
Now you're starting to get it. The only thing left is for you to drop your aversion, which you admit is not based in history, but rather a "gut feeling," to the Church.
SD
It means what it always means. That she is the mother of the King.
She was also called "Queen of all Saints" in a posted RC prayer. Doesn't addressing somebody as a Queen of all Saints imply that her rulership over you?
Will they look at the celibacy issue?
There is no reason to. Celibacy does not make men into pedophiles. The problem has been the infiltration into the Church of homosexuals and other types of "liberals." They have sown their seeds and now the flowers are blooming.
The hierarchy of the Church in this country (and many others) is simply bankrupt. Restoration will not take place until the current crop is removed from office and orthodox men put in their stead.
SD
She is traditionally understood to be the first born of the saints. If she has any rulership it is only that her will is in perfect alignment with God's. Which is also the case of the other saints in Heaven.
SD
I guess. I always tell people the Bible (the true owners manual) is like reading a sundial in a closet unless you actually know the author. Man made stuff like the magisterium, catechism and decretals (whether true or false) are optional. Hopefully most will opt out of them.
Scuse'. You seem to have missed the majority of the discussion. Jesus said it was a vision. Do we know what a "vision" is as oposed to a physical reality?
Yeah, it kind of stinks to have to rely only on the revealed word of God. :-)
But it's not a level playing field. Among all of those early Christian leaders, who decided which ones qualified to be called Early Fathers? The Catholic Church. Who decided which works should be copied and passed on to posterity? Copying was a slow, tedious job before the invention of the printing press. Who decided which writings were important enough to copy? The Catholic Church.
Mack, I'm afraid I don't understand the point of you posting this. All I can say is, "exactly."
The Church decides which writings are orthodox and which are not. The Church decides who is revered as a Father and who isn't. Yes, exactly.
Who would you have do it?
SD
SoothingDave: But, saying that, I don't believe that that means that I have to automatically approve of everything that the modern state of Israel does, do I?
No, of course not. Let me look back and see what it was that I found questionable.
Here we go:
| To: Invincibly Ignorant One thing that is undisputably God's will is that he will honor his promise to Abraham. Israel still is God's chosen and we're just grafted in. Of course. But #1, does that have to be a literal interpretation. I consider all of the Christians, actually all who live and have been influenced by the Judeo-Christian God as being the descendents of Abraham. So we are as many as the stars in the sky. God kept that promise. Who says that the physical Israel on earth has to be re-possessed by Jews? #2, who says that the "Jews" in Israel today (a largely secular group) are fulfilling God's plan? Are you sure they aren't trying God's patience, or trying to force God's hand? SD 1028 posted on 4/4/02 11:21 AM Central by SoothingDave [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1022 | View Replies | Report Abuse ] |
I think if you reread this, you might see why I interpreted your remarks the way I did. The point you made, whether or not you intended to, was that Christians have inherited God's promise to Abraham, and that God's promises to Israel are no longer in effect or are "spiritualized". That is supercessionism.
He's Jewish, too! ;o)
SD
Is there scripture to support this?
And I would never in a thousand years approach you with a band of beads and say.
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
"excuse me, can you pass me that magazine"
... 53 times to get you to pass me a magazine. For one thing, you'd look at me, and rightly so, as though I were NUTS. If you did it to me, You'd be kindly asked to shut up on the second one, by the third I'd take the magazine back and by the sixth I'd be calling a preacher to have you examined for spiritual problems, that or I'd call the Cops and have you hauled off for being a public nuesance. But, this passes as piety among those that know how to gather people more than they know how to Follow the word of God on the subject.
Well, Havoc, never let it be said that you understand contemplation.
SD
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