The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Did you notice that in between all of these important posts about birth control and such that people have actually been discussing things like the nature of Christ? The nerve.

Yeah, bunch of fanatics, there goes the neighbor hood. :)

BigMack

[IMRight]

I didn't really want to but Mack being an only child himself did not want to have an only child.

Nahhhh. It's just that somebody called him your "firstborn" son and Mack just knew that meant you had to have one more kid. :)

I'm also kidda glad your daighter doesn't participate here.

[ksen]

Alone, I'm sure... ;)

Uumm, yeah. ;^)

-Kevin

[Havoc]

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Read it again. This whole passage is dealing with the physical realm. Once in the grave, men don't toil anymore on this earth, they don't think anymore on this earth, they have no more wisdom, use no more of anything on this earth. Thus the living know they will die but the dead know nothing. Context, buddy. All Context.

[IMRight]

Oh boy. That's gonna get you banned.

I'll look for "MackDaddy" tomorrow. :)

[Havoc]

He certainly has a portion after His physical death in that which is done under the sun.

Jesus has a part because he is not physically dead. Read it again.

[Fury]

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter - 2 Thess 2:15 (DRB)

should be 2:14. Sorry for the typo...

[malakhi]

Its about time for a picture of some sperm don't ya think? BigMack

Heheheh...I think I'll "abstain" on that one. ;o)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I like your wife:), she knows whats important.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well, Mack has said that one of the great things about this forum is that it's not like Sunday coffee hour. And today, that sure is the truth!

Hi how are you, how are you doing today, NAW, let go XXX religious style...wait what was that.....did I hear Jimmy Swaggart say Amen! :)

BigMack

[IMRight]

Jesus has a part because he is not physically dead. Read it again.

But he was. Read it again.

Did He have no ability to affect anything for those three days?

[SoothingDave]

Are you saying that martyrs aren't saints?

Excuse me. Did you read it or just respond as though you have?

Explain how one is guilty of the blood of a saint if they be not a martyr.

If one is guilty of the blood, one has either murdered one - in which case they have martyred a saint. Or they are guilty of having had the saint martyred, in which case another has martyred them; but, the first is still guilty of their blood only as they did not actually commit the deed.

If I take a pot and break it, I am guilty both of the taking and the breaking. If I order another to take the pot and break it, I am guilty of both though I did not break it. The actual deed was done by another.

Thus if I order the murder of a saint, I didn't martyr them; but I'm still guilty of their murder. If I actually martyr them, I own the martyrdome and am guilty of murder. Straight forward. Unless you try to be obtuse about it.

Nope, no coherence at all. Just what I expected. Hey, Havoc, what is the difficulty you have with answering questions people put to you?

You seemed to be making some big deal out of the fact that only the Holy Roman Empire killed both martyrs and saints. It went somethign like this:

Rome - Guilty of the blood of Martyrs
'Holy Rome' - Guilty of the blood of saints and of martyrs
China (today)- Guilty of the blood of Martyrs
Iran (today)<- Guilty of the blood of Martyrs
Iraq (today)<- Guilty of the blood of Martyrs
Afganistan(today)<- Guilty of the blood of Martyrs

Now, for the last time, what is the difference? How can one kill a martyr and not simultaneously be guilty of the blood of a saint? Or, as I put it the first time "Are you saying martyrs aren't saints?"

Does anybody here, anybody, have any idea what Havoc is saying?

SD

[Wordsmith]

guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us - 2 Tim 1:13-14

Thanks, I think this verse addresses what we're talking about in a particularly important way. What is of critical importance is "the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit." This truth is not and cannot be contained only in a book, no matter how holy and God-inspired. This truth is the whole Way of the Christian. The difference between traditional Christian faith and bible-only Christian faith is that the former presumes that this Way has been guarded as Paul asked, and that we have access to it, and the latter presumes that it hasn't, and that we only have access to the Scriptures to teach us what it is.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I bet Mack and Becky took a laptop into the shower. :-)

Don't have a laptop, took the binoculars, we can see the putter screen from the shower. :)

BigMack

[Wordsmith]

Once in the grave, men don't...

Context, buddy

Context is exactly what I think is crucial - the context of the OT. When Ecclesiastes was written, this was true. But in the context of the NT, it's not true any longer.

To put it another way, "Once in the grave, CHRIST DID ..." And so do His followers.

[al_c]

I knew no one was judging ME. But when men sit around and talk about to control pregnancy or not too it's rather amusing. You all don't have a clue

Let me just say that my wife is in 100% agreement with me on this subject. I guess I must have at least a little bit of a clue.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Don't have a laptop, took the binoculars, we can see the putter screen from the shower. :)

Speaking of showers. I just got out. Had to get cleaned up for my 14 year old son's talent show tonight. He decided to sing "My Heart Will Go On" to a donut. I can't miss that. :-)

[SoothingDave]

He decided to sing "My Heart Will Go On" to a donut.

Sounds like idolatry to me. ;-)

Tell him "break a leg"

SD

[Fury]

Great point and not only was it not contained in a book in the Early years of the Church, Early Christians acted very much in doctrine, in tradition if you will:

They therefore that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls. And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles and in the communication of the breaking of bread and in prayers - Acts 2:41-42 (DRB)

The early Church was a teaching, loving Church. And that early Church used oral, *apostolic tradition*.

Havoc is correct that one must adhere to the word of God. But there is clear evidence in Scripture for tradition *and* Scripture, as long as the tradition can be based in Scipture.

[al_c]

but if you ever had a baby come out sideways like Becky did

OUCH!!!! :(