Posted on 04/13/2002 7:13:03 AM PDT by NYer
Ask yourself: why do I hate the Catholic Church? Who taught me what I think I know about the Catholic Church? Is what I was taught true? Have I looked at what the Catholic Church has to say about itself, using official resources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and papal encyclicals? Could my opinion of the Catholic Church possibly be based on bias, bigotry, bad history, propaganda from the secular media, or the bad priests who get publicity (i.e., the sick, and sickening, pedophile priests or those certain heretical modernist priests the secular media love to give press to)? Is it fair to judge doctrine by such things? Is any group with human beings in it free from sin and scandal? If I am wrong about the Catholic Church, what does that mean?
Here are some common myths about the Catholic Church:
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Because Catholics reject the tradition of "sola fide" ("faith alone"), they think they can work their way into Heaven and believe they are saved by works |
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Catholics think the pope does not sin |
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Catholics re-crucify Christ at their Masses (or at least think they do) |
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Catholics think Mary is part of the Godhead and is to be worshipped |
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Catholics worship statues |
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Catholics think they can't pray to God directly but have to go through saints |
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Catholics conjure the dead |
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Catholics believe people can be saved after they die |
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The Catholic Church teaches that one who isn't formally a Catholic is damned to Hell |
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The Crusades are an example of Catholic aggression |
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The Inquisition(s) killed hundreds of thousands of people and targeted Jews |
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Pope Pius XII was "Hitler's Pope" and didn't do a thing to help Jews during WWII |
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The Catholic Church wasn't around until the time of Constantine, a pagan who controlled the Church. The Catholic Church did more than baptize pagan calendar days for the good of Christ, it is pagan in its very roots. |
If you believe any of the above myths, I implore you to research. For doctrinal questions, ask the Church what it teaches; it's the only fair thing to do. For historical questions, look at balanced and objective scholarly research from a variety of sources (including Catholic ones).
And as you research, keep in mind the common logical fallacies that are often used in attacks against Catholicism:
Generalization:
"I knew a Catholic/ex-Catholic (or I was a Catholic) who was (mean, a drunk, not holy, didn't like the Church, was superstitious, didn't know the Bible, didn't have a deep relationship with Jesus, etc.), so therefore, the teachings of the Catholic Church are wrong." (Ignores the fact that bad catechesis, miunderstandings, or other shortcomings of a few Catholics do not reflect on what the Catholic Church teaches)
Bifurcation:
"If the Catholic Church doesn't teach that it's faith alone that saves, then it must teach that men are saved by their own works." (Ignores that we teach that we are saved by Grace alone -- a Grace with which we must cooperate through "faith that works in love")
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc:
"Winter Solstice is on 21 December; Christmas is 25 December. Therefore, Christmas is a pagan holiday. (Ignores that fact that there are only 365 days to choose from in a year and that the early Church Fathers had good reasons to choose the date they did. It also ignores that Protestants' "Reformation Day" is celebrated on 31 October, the pagan festival of Samhain.)
Post hoc ergo propter hoc:
"Constantine must have been the real source of the Catholic Church's teachings because after his reign the Church grew tremendously, and before his reign it wasn't as well-known" (Ignores the simple fact that Constantine merely stopped the persecution of Christians with the Edict of Milan and allowed Christianity to spread. It also ignores the writings of the Church Fathers who lived before Constantine -- and who were Catholic.)
Straw man:
"You guys worship statues, and that's evil. Therefore, your religion is Satanic." (Ignores that fact that we don't worship statues)
... and now I challenge my brothers and sisters in Christ to take two hours of your life to listen to theologian and former Presbyterian minister Scott Hahn and to Rosalind Moss, who was raised Jewish and later became Evangelical. Both are now 100% Catholic; don't you want to know why? Truly, I challenge you to listen and pray and think about what you hear, all with an open heart to God's will.
Real Audio: Listen to Scott Hahn tell his story
Real Audio: Listen to Rosalind Moss tell her story
Ahem. Why do you purposefully lie? When we pray the Our Father during Mass, it sure as hell isn't to the Pope.
ONE single way -- the blood of Jesus Christ, with ALL prayers to be directed IN HIS NAME ONLY.
Exurge Domine, Dated on the 15th day of June, 1520
"He has sullied marriage, disparaged confession, and denied the body and blood of our Lord. He makes the sacraments depend on the faith of the recipient. He is pagan in his denial of free will. This devil in the habit of a monk has brought together ancient errors into one stinking puddle and has invented new ones. He denies the power of the keys and encourages the laity to wash their hands in the blood of the clergy. His teaching makes for rebellion, division, war, murder, robbery, arson, and the collapse of Christendom. He lives the life of a beast. He has burned the decretals. He despises alike the ban and the sword. He does more harm to the civil than to the ecclesiastical power. We have labored with him, but he recognizes only the authority of Scripture, which he interprets in his own sense. We have given him twenty-one days, dating from April the 25th. We have now gathered the estates. Luther is to be regarded as a convicted heretic. When the time is up, no one is to harbor him. His followers also are to be condemned. His books are to be eradicated from the memory of man."
Edict of Worms
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Just for the record.
So true!
I disagree. In my small Catholic Church this last Easter we had MORE people accepted (baptized, confirmed) into the Catholic Church than ever before!
You see, it is a matter of each person's heart, not what the bishops are doing.
Among Protestants there is debate whether the term metanoeo means to change one's mind or to change one's actions.The Catholic notion of doing penance is this performance of deeds worthy of their repentance. The Douay-Rheims translation of the Vulgate uses "do penance" where the KJV says "repent." To say "do penance" suggests that the repentance and the deeds worthy of that repentance are both required. Are we headed for the old faith/works debate here? ;o)
--drstevejWherefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent (metanoein) and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance.
--Acts 26:19-20</b
"Do Pennance" is not in the range of meaning for the terms Matthew and Esekiel used.In Ezekiel 18:30, the "repent and turn" in the KJV is, in the Septuagint, epistraphete kai apostrepsate which according to the Liddell/Scott Greek-English Lexicon, is to turn about or turn around and turn back. These words imply a change of action (doing penance) along with a change of heart. This fits nicely with St. Paul's remarks quoted above.
drstevej
Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness. Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness.
[21] For from the time that the Bishop of Rome had gotten to be acknowledged for bishop universal, by pretense of successsion to St. Peter, their whole hiearchy (or kingdom of darkness) may be compared to the kingdom of fairies (that is, to the old wives' fables in England, concerning ghosts and spirits and the feats they play in the night). And if a man consider the original of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily percieve that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof. For so did the Papacy start up on a sudden out of the ruins of that heathen empire.
[23] The fairies, in what nation soever they converse, have but one universal king, which some poets of ours call King Oberon; but the Scripture calls Beelzebub, prince of demons. The ecclesiastics likewise, in whose dominions soever they be found, acknowledge but one universal king, the Pope.
Christ told one thief in Matthew 23:43 "And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise." Yet in John 20:17 Christ tells Mary Magdalene after the Resurrection "Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God." So if He had not yet ascended to the Father, where was paradise?
We know that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was written in Greek. In the Old Testament the word Sheol refers to the underworld where the dead dwelt in darkness, but Sheol is not hell. In the New Testament the word Hades refers to the underworld, but Hades is not hell. Hades is distinct from Gehenna, which is the abode of condemned souls, the lake of fire, hell. The Apocalypse teaches that in the end, death and hades are thrown into hell(gehenna). Purgatory exists between the particular and general judgments.
While it is true that the word purgatory does not exist in Scripture, neither do the words Trinity, Incarnation or Bible. Are those doctrines rejected as well? Orthodox Jews recite a prayer known as the Mourner's Kaddish for 11 months following the death of a loved one for purification and did so in the Old Testament. Purgatory doesn't square with the subjective invention known as Sola Fide and that's why the reformers rejected the Latin purgatorium and Machabees.
John the Baptist: "Repent."
On another note:
You may want to check the EXACT words of the priest during absolution. The priestly power to forgive sins is comes through the power of Christ's Death and Resurrection.
Check it out for yourself.
I do not mean this glibly, but how does the saying of a number of Hail Mary's relate to deeds worthy of repentance? I can see making restitution for theft, offering and apology to someone offended, etc. but ritual acts somehow do not fit in the same category.
I'll take Sola Fide and you can have Purgatory.
2 Peter 3:15-16 " And account the long suffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."
1 Timothy 3:15 "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
Think through the implications of these verses in light of your post.
Titles include: Landings,
Catholics Can Come Home Again,
Journeys,
Welcome Home, Catholics.
And there are many others. Check out the other side of the coin -- or are you so steeped in your unbelief that you are not open to the truth?
From the Catholic almanac:
Anathema: A Greek word with the root meaning of cursed or separated and the adapted meaning of excommunication, used in church documents, especially the canons of ecumenical councils, for the condemnation of heretical doctrines and of practices opposed to proper discipline.
I was merely quoting 'tiki' as I am quoting you right now.
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