BEWARE THE RED HEIFER: How religious nutballs could start World War III

Antiwar.com ^ | April 15, 2002 | Justin Raimondo

[detsaoT]

Agreed! I had early religious training in the Protestant faith. (Methodist actually)

As another Methodist, I feel your pain. The modern Methodist church has abandoned ALL of the core tenets of Christianity in favor of rampant feel-goodism. And then, they turn around and wonder why nobody is attending their churches...

I tried other faiths and churches in my lifetime and always ended up pissed at something. A little voice (I hear voices!LOL!) said to me one day that I did not need to attend a church to serve God. That is it in a nutshell. I do what I can to help people find comfort in their lives and help the needy when I can but it is all done by me and not a group thing.

I agree with you that there are certainly far too many false shepherds out there, infinitely harming their parishoners more than we will know in our lifetime. Did you take the teachings of Christ with you from the Church? Do you still study his teachings in depth, and the Judaic history upon which it is based?

If you are able to listen online, I cannot recommend enough the Calvary Satellite Network as a GREAT source of sound teachings. I highly recommend that you check it out online, or if you're unable to, see if they broadcast in your area. You won't regret what you learn from them!

(There's plenty of background information on the Calvary Chapel movement on their website, if you prefer to have that before jumping into new materials. The Chapel itself was started as a church for the outcasts of the day (in the 60's it was the surfer/hippy-types), and still to this day is a very great source for independent, un-fouled-by-tradition Biblical teachings...)

I suppose you could call me a loner. Jesus inferred somewhere that the church could be a mutiple of one.

Actually, he specifically warned us NOT to pay attention to the Christian walks of those around us, but to concentrate on OUR walk with Him. I would tend to say that most of us are unable to reliably walk with Him without interacting with other Believers, though. You're welcome to freep-mail me if you have any questions or flames re: stuff on the CSN.

:) ttt

[Quix]

The author of this article needs his reality testing and research skills seriously adjusted.

Evidently he has an aversion to honor where honor is due--LIKE--***THE**** BOSS!!! . . . otherwise known as God Almighty!

Ah well, he may be more likely to learn something when they insist on injecting the chip. . . . on 2nd thought, he'll probably be first in line.

[detsaoT]

I'm a deist not an atheist 1st of all A=A existence exist. This universe, definitely a part of existence not neccasaraly all of it, existing within time( you could still tell the passage of time even with no senses but you own thoughts thus I will argue the existence of this universe within in time is absolutely true and independent of perception or sense data) is either eternal itself its own "uncaused caused"( I find this unlikely that tiem goes back forever) or some other eternal thing created our universe which exist in time( well actually another universe existing within time could supposedly make this one but eventually the chain of cause and effect has to end at an origin an "uncaused eternal cause"). That being said its a big leap from my own impersonal, eternal, unfathomable, and distant deist god creating time and space the laws of physics and the original amount of matter and energy in the Universe to the angry jealous God of the Old Testament or the Loving god of the New Testament creating Adam and Eve.

Perhaps so, perhaps not. Thanks for sharing your views, in any event. I'll sum up Deism in the dT (actually, the Chuck Colson) Worldview Diagram. Call me on it if I'm wrong.

- Where did we come from?
God the Creator caused the World to come into existence. Beyond this point, God the Creator moved on to other things, preferring not to directly intertwine Himself amongst His Creation.

- What caused Mankind to come to the state he is in?
Mankind, being a Creation of the Divine Being, but not under the control of said Divine Being, has brought upon himself all of the problems in which he finds himself today. He did this by exercising his free will in incorrect manners.

- What can be done to solve the problems in which Mankind finds himself?
Mankind, being on his own from the beginning of Time, must determine and solve his problems by himself, using whichever means he is able to collectively come up with. He can expect no help from the Creator, as the Creator does not become involved in Mankind's affairs.

(Am I on-target here?)

:) ttt

[Cold Heat]

Just for conversational purposes, was not WWI and WWII started in the Balkans. Were not both participants in a long tern religious squabble?

Does this not have some similarities to the Mid East conflict?

[The Green Goblin]

I always thought it was the advent of Red Bull that was a sign of the end times...

[Cold Heat]

He can expect no help from the Creator, as the Creator does not become involved in Mankind's affairs.

You get a high five from me!

[Dinsdale]

Just to tone down the right wing isrealis I think a tranq dart loaded with tatto ink is called for.

[weikel]

Basically. It is possible that god interferes but given that god would probably know the exact sequence of events determined in time since the beginning of time why would he need to.

[detsaoT]

You get a high five from me!

(Your high-five might be a touch premature - I wasn't stating my beliefs, I was attempting to paraphrase those held by Deists (apparently, such as Weikel, assuming he doesn't take issue with my paraphrasing too badly)....)

Guess I shoulda put a disclaimer at the bottom. I still urge you to check out what's on CSN - I learned a TON from them, and think that it's the best source for this kind of information I've found to date.

FReegards, in any event, my friend!

:D ttt

[Cold Heat]

And the idea being that race is invlved here as well? Hmmmmm! How unusual!

[weikel]

I thought I presented it in a more step by step logical fashion a proof that either the universe is eternal and uncaused or a god is eternal and uncaused. I don't see why more people haven't bought into my reasoning their is no faith required its just pure logic faith means you believe in something with no rational and therefore no basis.

[detsaoT]

Basically. It is possible that god interferes but given that god would probably know the exact sequence of events determined in time since the beginning of time why would he need to.

Excellent. Thank you for your assistance - I've filed that in my Mental Notes for future reference.

For the record, I don't share your beliefs. I don't know which one of us is incorrect, nor do I really think it matters at this point. I'm not gonna nit-pick on it, in any case.

FReegards. At least we agree that socialism is a very bad thing. It's generally enuff' for me.

:) ttt

[Cold Heat]

There is a biblical quote someplace that states this question and answer. I don't recall it exactly but Jesus was asked to prove the existance of God by putting himself in harms way. The inference being that God would allow no harm to come to him. The answer was priceless. I don't recall it verbatim so I will not attempt a paraphrase. (Too much respect for the words to muck them up)

Perhaps someone can put them on this thread.

[mcsparkie]

These Israeli nutballs have forged a natural alliance with our Christian nutballs

I resemble that remark....

[weikel]

Well as for socialism as an objectivist( with a few philosophical disagreements the biggest being me being a Deist rather than an athiest) I hate socialism by being a socialist you politically advocate the enslavement of others and thus have forfeited any right to life( the more squeamish forms of libertarians don't call us a cult for nothing LOL).

[weikel]

Not really he did admire the rigid hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church( not shared by Himmler who hated the church with a passion) but he also admired the military nature of Islam. He did believe in some kind of god but I'm not sure what that was.

[detsaoT]

I thought I presented it in a more step by step logical fashion a proof that either the universe is eternal and uncaused or a god is eternal and uncaused. I don't see why more people haven't bought into my reasoning their is no faith required its just pure logic faith means you believe in something with no rational and therefore no basis.

Pick the most dogmatic of these statements:

* "The universe came into being at some point in time, due to currently unknown circumstances. As a result of an indeterminite chain of events, mankind somehow evolved from primal life to become what he has become."

* "There is a Creator who, by unknown means, decided to Create the earth and its inhabitants, but who chooses not to be involved in world events, as He already knows what would occur anyway."

* "God the Father created the Heavens and the Earth in seven days. Mankind, being perfect, and placed amongst the perfect Creation - but having a free will to make his own decisions - determined that he wished to be As God Was (having knowledge of good and evil), and as a result, he disobeyed God, causing all of Creation to fall into imperfection. As a result, mankind is a being marred by imperfections (evil) which cannot be made whole without the Loving Grace of God the Father, sent to earth by His Son."

(The correct answer is this: _ALL_ of the above statements REQUIRE some leap of faith in order for us to accept them.)

There is no possible way for any of us to be 100% sure, BY OUR OWN MEANS, that ANY the statements above are absolutely factual, without turning off portions of our critical thinking in order to accept the statement which best fits our worldview as a whole.)

Re: the 1st one, (a) there is no proof that Mankind is related in any direct way to the animal kingdom, (b) simple mathematics dictates that the tenets proposed by the above could not have possibly happened by themselves in the timeframe allotted ("billions" of years).

Re: the 2nd one, there is inherently no way to prove or disprove the existence of a spiritual realm/Deity from the physical realm.

Re: the 3rd one, ditto.

See my point? Neither of us is being more or less dogmatic than the other. We're simply dogmatic with respect to completely different dogmas.

:) ttt

[TheHeterodoxConservative]

Mat 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:5
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Mat 4:6
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

[Orual]

Heilige Kuh!

(Santa mucca!)