Unconditional Election (calvinism)vs. Bible Truth: "God...desires ALL men to be saved" 1Ti2:3,4

http://home.kscable.com/winfieldcofc/newspaper/03election.htm ^ | Clint Brown

[vmatt]

Nothing like a solid response.

You choose to ignore the points I spend a lot of time making then take offense when I become frustrated with your questions. Once I provide a scripture and interpretation I expect to be answered point for point with scripture otherwise we simply waste each others time. Please provide the scripture in question together with your interpretation(s) and then we can address the narrower questions more thoroughly, don't you agree?

[BISHNHOPPER]

I surfed by this page just a few seconds ago and I had to stop and let you and the rest of the people know that you don't know the whole truth when you speak of Calvinism.

God desires that all men would turn to Him, I believe that! I believe that with all my heart because it is IN THE BIBLE!!!! I believe the entire council of God, the entire Bible. You on the other hand have a presupposition that you believe in more than the Bible. You are blinded by what you have been taught. So much so that you will not pick up the bible and read the entire thing! If you are truly a Christian, which I am not doubting but rather I am simply specifying what I am about to say, than you must admit that "it is not by works of righteousness that we have done but by God's grace alone" that we are saved, right? Not works plus faith, not ambition plus faith, and really nothing else but faith alone in Christ, as it says in Ephesians 2:1-10. “1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” So if you believe that, then why is it that you profess that you were saved by your own power. If your line of thinking is correct then the only reason why you "came to Christ" is simply that you were smarter than the next guy. Think about it? You say with your lips that it's faith alone, however you act as though it is by your intelligence and faith! My dear friend that is blasphemy!! I would almost dare to say that it is another Gospel. To teach that you must be smarter or greater than others in order to be saved? Didn't James write about that? Let's take a look at that! James 2:1-13 "1My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,”£ you do well; 9but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”£ also said, “Do not murder.”£ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."
It all comes down to this: I believe that God gets all the glory.
You confess that God gets 95 percent of the glory and man gets like 5 percent. Think about it! If you're going to error when it comes to teaching the word of God, why not error on the side of God's glory and not man's? I know for a fact that God is not going to say, when we all get to heaven, "well I'm really disappointed in you, you just gave Me too much glory!"

[xzins]

No, I think it is by faith plus nothing on my part. Where'd you get the idea that I believe it's by works? By the way, nice to meet you. I don't remember having conversed before. Welcome.

[lovecalvin]

So sinners work faith in their own hearts-showing they are better,stronger,and more spiritual than others? And this is not a work? This is man's gift to God and not God's gift to men. So unregenerated man is totally free and some succeed where Adam failed? So Jesus is wrong when He states man is a slave to sin and a captive of the Devil? So men believe and repent before they are rewarded with regeneration? Now believers believe and go to heaven. So a man can be a believer and go to heaven without being born again? So man can trust,love,and be attracted to Jesus while he is in the flesh,cannot please God,is unable to see the kingdom of God,cannot be subject to the law of God,and cannot discern spiritual truth. If so,this is a greater miracle than Jesus walking on the water. Personally I would rather be a robot in heaven,rather than a sovereign free-willer in hell. Think man is the master of his destiny and decisional regeneration is true. Go to ex-christians.com and tell them that. You may not like the response.

[lovecalvin]

Yes,it is to much to ask. Human perversity and pride blinds the minds of men. Calvinism denies the supreme claim of sinners to be as God,that is,the supreme determiner of their fate. The sinful little pots want to be the potter. The great lie is decisional regeneration. Go to ex-christians.com to see an example of this evil. Seventy million in this nation claim to be Christians. Most are self-deluded due to the Arminian gospel. The true figure might be closer to fifteen million. Few are chosen.

[lovecalvin]

without predestination none of us would be saved.

[rwfromkansas]

amen

[xzins]

I think you've got me all wrong.

I don't believe that men work faith in their own hearts. I think they work resistance.

A year 2002 thread? Welcome to the new guy. I notice I said the same up above. If we already know each other, keep it to yourself.

[lovecalvin]

Thats a Lutheran doctrine. Nothing against Lutherans since I have many friends .that are Lutherans. But you didn't work resistence because,while unregenerated and dead in sin,you were more inclined to piety and more wise than those that don't. You made yourself to differ so now you can boast? The truth is that you don't like to hear that God is free to give his grace to whom he chooses and withhold it from whom he chooses. You don't like to hear God has mercy on whom he will have mercy and hardens whom he will harden. You certainly don't like his answer:"Who art thou o'man who replieth against GOD."God is God. Get over it.

[xzins]

That post seems to enjoy telling me what I think. But it's wrong.

Saved by grace; lost by resistance.

Everyone who is saved is saved by grace.

Those who are lost are lost by resistance. Stephen told them that they always resist the Holy Spirit just as their fathers did.

[lovecalvin]

Unbelievable. Blind as a bat. You saved yourself by yielding and others did not. Your not going to get any glory. Get your nose out of God's glory tent. Nothing for you. What part of no glory don't you understand. Your not going to give orders to the Almighty as to how he distributes his grace and you are not going to frustrate his choices of the elect. He is not your lapdog. He doesn't need mine,yours,or anyone's else advice. If you really believe you saved yourself then tell that to God that you praise yourself that you did not resist. Go pray to other sinners not to resist and stop bothering God since he is hostage to your free-will. Next time you want something pray to men or look in the mirror.

[xzins]

I was saved by the Grace of Almighty God. God opened my eyes, gave me life, and moved me into His eternal Kingdom.

It was nothing of me.

My salvation was all of Him.