"Justin continues: "And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that THEREAFTER the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgement of all men would likewise take place."
Could you give me the Scripture where John declares that those who believed in our Christ specifically 'would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem'. I can't find that citation.
Furthermore, Martyr claims that John 'prophecied' that 'Thereafter' a general and eternal resurrection and judgement of all men would likewise take place.
Can you cite the scriptures that declare that this even takes place after believers 'would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem'. This is especially important, as I have quoted you several passages by the very same Apostle John which speak of a singular day of resurrection and judgement. I think if you could show me the scriptures which specifically declare what Martyr states that the issue would be clarified.
"Justin Martyr lived from 110-165 AD. He was a Gentile born in Samaria, near Jacob's well. As such his older Christian brothers and sisters would have been among the first and second generation of those who had learned directly from the Apostles...Why should I believe you and not him...when he lived in the location and nearly the time of the Apostles?"
I looked again, x, and I didn't see any books by Martyr in the Bible (this line of thinking sounds eerily familiar ;) ). Therefore, what ~he~ happened to say is not really relevant -regardless of when he lived and who he knew. Now, this line of thinking might be important to a Roman Catholic, but it has no bearing on a Protestant. Since His works are ~not~ inspired, he ~could~ have been wrong.
Now, if you can show me from Scripture where I can find reference specifically to this 1000 year reign, I will take a look.
Jean
1. (see post #9) Justin Martyr is typical of the 1st two centuries of the church. No matter where they come from they take these passages literally and connect the Revelation 20 verses with the Isaiah passages about the Lord reigning out of Jerusalem on the earth. It is a commentary on scripture; it is not scripture itself.
(a) This is the earliest commentary on Rev 20 that is in existence. It represents the earliest church understanding of these passages. Because of that it is highly significant.
(b) I notice that you have not refuted the quote, but have instead simply said that you don't accept its analysis of scripture. I have said all along that that is your right and that we shouldn't make ones eschatology a matter of salvation. Your response was that the pre-mil position is garbage (or whatever word it was you used.) I have just demonstrated that it was the belief of the earliest church. That makes it much more significant than just garbage.
(c) Your amil understanding doesn't show up really until Augustine. It arises primarily because Christians are becoming impatient with waiting for the coming of the Lord and are looking for some other explanation. Therefore, they leave the classical pre-mil position for something else.
2. Revelation 19 & 20: These 2 chapters are descriptions of the return of Christ and aftermath. There are various settings intended. Let's go through them. The scene switches from heaven to the war on earth. The saints then reign from SOMEWHERE with Christ. Where are they at when Satan attacks again? ON EARTH which is quite clear from 20: 7-9.
19:11: in heaven
19:12: in heaven
19:13: in heaven
19:14: in heaven
19:15: in heaven with action intended for earth
19:16: in heaven
19:17: fowls = midheaven = earth
19:18: dead flesh = earth
19:19: war = on earth
19:20: beast seized on earth + beast thrown into hell
19:21: dead = on earth
20: 1: coming down from heaven = earth;
20: 2: abyss
20: 3: abyss
20: 4: earth (reigned with Christ); cf 20:7-9 - "came up on the broad plain OF THE EARTH and surrounded the CAMP OF THE SAINTS AND THE BELOVED CITY and fire CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and devoured them."
(where were they? ON EARTH. IN THE BELOVED CITY.)
It is extremely EASY to see from the above where Justin Martyr and the early church came up with their beliefs on this subject. Also, why they would connect them with the Isaiah passages.
It's simply argumentative to say that they had no case at all and that their opinions were garbage.
I am truly puzzled as to why you ask for this reference when it is contained twice in the very chapter under discussion.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection : on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,...
Clearly this comes before the Great White throne judgement of Rev 20:11-15 You really have to at least exegete the whole of chapter 20 in context to ellucidate your position.
Then you can go on and explain for example, how the prophesy of Zechariah 14:16-21 fits with your view.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.