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To: WriteOn; RnMomof7; xzins; RochesterFan; winstonchurchill
Thank you for the link, the post was quite interesting.

My Protestant brethren are going to be quite amazed that the Roman Church believes in Sola Fide (formata)

Two interesting things in this.

One the Romanists have always jumped up and down when the word alone was mentioned.

That word is never used they say (Luther wrote in the margin of his Bible) so the concept is a false one.

Now, it seems that the RCC held to it all along!

Second, no object (Christ alone) of the faith is mentioned (and this is the issue in James).

Thus, according to Rome, salvation comes through the Roman Church and not be faith in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ and His blood atonement (Rom.3:25, Eph.2:8-9)

The issue that you raise between formata and informis is one debated on the Lordship issue between Protestants (what faith is and is not)

If you are saying that if one can have such a sola fide formata faith outside of the RCC (and its Sacraments) then you are saying one can saved without the RCC.

Is that what you are saying?

As for my personal view on the difference between the two, someone who comes to the point of salvation is under conviction by the Holy Spirit and has the Gospel revealed to him, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for his sins (1Cor.15:3-5) and must place his confidence in the shed blood of Christ for his eternal salvation.

If he does that he will be saved, and will have assurance of that salvation (1Jn.5:13).

He can only be saved if he is totally and completely trusting in the work and person of Christ and not anything he can do to 'help' God (e.g. take Sacraments like Baptism, Communion)

34 posted on 10/14/2002 2:18:32 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Your #34 was well put! Good summary of the Good News!
39 posted on 10/14/2002 9:26:07 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: fortheDeclaration; RnMomof7; xzins
Clearly we don't regard the Eastern Orthodox as "condemned." They are not RCC. The current spirit of Ecumenism of JP II's Magisterium suggests that while there are formulaic differences between kinds of Lutheranism and the Church of England, there are no issues of salvation; if there were I don't think we'd be as close as we are to rejoining those branches.

That said, I'm sure I'm not competent to answer this question as fully as you might like, but I would go out on a limb and say that each individual works out there salvation with Jesus, not the RCC.

My understanding of the core RCC position on the sacraments is that they are a gift of the Holy Spirit, not a litmus test for salvation. The sacraments are certainly not "helping" God, though they do help us. We are called to work with God, but I don't think of it as a partnership. The best analogies are probably from Lord and serf, rather than modern business practice.

I am most disappointed in the acrimony of the debates, but I can see some of the differences are wide. The more I learn of Catholicism the more I see that it is a hard faith that asks a lot of a catechist or practitioner. It is not for the unlearned which is why so many of our children fall away -- and why so many scholars of Protestant faiths return.

It is also foreign to America's current mindset. It is something out of antiquity.

I hope that if RCs have hurt you, that you accept healing in my suffering and sorrow.

43 posted on 10/15/2002 6:59:14 AM PDT by WriteOn
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