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Grace vs Works!
Good News Unlimited ^ | November 2002 | Editorial

Posted on 11/16/2002 1:02:27 PM PST by f.Christian

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To: Larry Lucido
James 2:14-26

This does address the point I just made to f.christian.

All scriptures on the matter of grace and works must be reconciled before a true understanding can be reached.

Grace is certainly sufficient to save mans sould but Gods plan/will requires action on our part to be able to realize the gift of grace.

21 posted on 11/17/2002 8:04:15 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: PFKEY
I think folks get confused between vain works, and works that arise from faith. Some insist that all works are worthless, period. That position is not supported by any scriptures I have ever seen.
22 posted on 11/17/2002 8:18:17 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido
That position is not supported by any scriptures I have ever seen.

Everyone including myself fall into the same traps where we hold fast to a favorite passage then try to make all other passages fit into our favorite or simple ignore passages that are contrary.

This trap is easily seen regarding the topic of baptism.

23 posted on 11/17/2002 8:34:10 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: Larry Lucido
Grace-yes. Works-yes. Works are nothing without Grace. It is the Grace of God which urges us to do good works and not good works which give us Grace but if we do nothing with Grace, (say, bury it and say the master is a mean and demanding man) it is like getting a gift and never opening it and appreciating it or letting the gift grow and prosper.
24 posted on 11/17/2002 8:48:01 PM PST by tiki
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To: f.Christian
Is a person justified by what he does and not by faith alone?
25 posted on 11/17/2002 10:52:53 PM PST by Rambler
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To: tiki
Great summary, tiki.
26 posted on 11/17/2002 10:54:04 PM PST by Rambler
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To: f.Christian
Salvation/justification(NO works/complete) and sanctification/religion(WORKS/incomplete) are two different things/parts!

I haven't been to code talkers school but I think you are agreeing that not all works are contrary to grace, and that the article is unclear at best.

27 posted on 11/17/2002 11:04:52 PM PST by Rambler
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To: Rambler
Good News For The Day

‘To keep me from being conceited. . . there was given me a thorn in the flesh. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me: My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.’ (2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

"Paul pictures himself in a weak condition. It was far from an innocuous kind of weakness. He designates it with a strong metaphor-a thorn in the flesh. Originally, his language is even stronger. He says: "a stake for the flesh." His weakness is imposed on him, against his will. Scholars conjecture as to the exact nature of this problem. Some believe it took the form of a painful soreness of the eyes. Others refer to his experience when he visited Galatia. He had a bodily ailment there, which was disgusting to look at (Galatians 4:12-14). Whatever the source of Paul's weakness, it was disastrous. The imagery of his language portrays a man trying to get on with his life; do his work; meet his responsibilities, while impaled on a wooden stake."

"Understandably, he prayed to be delivered from this affliction, and God told him "My grace is sufficient for you. My strength is perfected in weakness." In other words: "Paul, my working in your life, will most readily take place in the least impressive aspects of your personality. In fact, your handicap, and your humiliation, is a foil for the might of my grace. From a natural, and reasonable standpoint, Paul's thorn in the flesh was hindering him in his work. But from the perspective of grace, it was making him more useful."

"The power of the gospel is in God's grace-his freely-bestowed kindness. When men and women rely on their skills, their gifts, their strengths, their competence, it is not grace. It is something else."

"When the human agent has reached the... end of its rope---then grace comes into its own."

28 posted on 11/18/2002 2:58:38 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: Rambler
Is a person justified by what he does and not by faith alone?


25 posted on 11/17/2002 10:52 PM PST by Rambler


Only justification by the work of God/Christ...

the 'fruits(santification/religion)' of the Gospel---YES...

human works whatsoever of any kind---NO!


There's some debate about whether lightning goes up or down....

with God it is one direction!


Martin Luther said Jesus saves you...

even your act/effort of faith has no merit---

what Jesus DID...the only merit!
29 posted on 11/18/2002 3:31:46 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
30 posted on 11/18/2002 9:33:30 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
31 posted on 11/18/2002 9:36:53 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian
Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
32 posted on 11/18/2002 9:37:04 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian
Hbr 6:10 For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
33 posted on 11/18/2002 9:37:25 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
34 posted on 11/18/2002 9:37:45 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian


1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1Ti 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,

1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
35 posted on 11/18/2002 9:39:00 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: f.Christian


1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1Ti 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,

1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
36 posted on 11/18/2002 9:41:24 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: PFKEY
The part I am trying to understand is if there is anything that God requires of us that is considered a work.

To get to Heaven? No.

37 posted on 11/18/2002 10:14:29 AM PST by ksen
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To: WriteOn
Only justification/SALVATION by the work of God/Christ...

the fruits/'works'(santification/religion) OF the Gospel/SALVATION---YES...

human works FOR SALVATION...whatsoever of any kind---NO!


38 posted on 11/18/2002 2:05:03 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
the fruits/'works'(santification/religion) OF the Gospel/SALVATION---YES... human works FOR SALVATION...whatsoever of any kind---NO!

What's the difference? Please give me some examples.

39 posted on 11/19/2002 11:41:01 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: WriteOn
Good News For The Day

‘Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened.’ (Matthew 11:28)

"Normal human life is burdensome. This is not so say that labor is a bad thing. It is not! It's a good thing. Yet, men and women everywhere do confess to being badly worn by the cares of this life. Added to the need for us to bend mind and muscle to earn daily bread, there are other things that complicate existence. Included are illness, injustice, natural disasters, and war with its carrion load of wounds and death."

"But there is a weariness of the spirit, which Jesus also has in view, in this passage. It was common in Judaism, to refer to the Law as a yoke; a metaphor for service (Lamentations 3:27; Jeremiah 2:20, 5:5). The Jewish religion in Jesus' day had become an instrument of oppression. Peter described the Law as "a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear" (Acts 15:10).

"Jesus offers relief from religious drudgery. He appeals to the common folk. "You know what your life is," he says. "You have been taught what you must do to please God, but you have not the wherewithal to do it. You are covered in cultic obligations which-far from granting you consolation, and strengthening-are... crushing---you."

"Come to me. I will give you rest."

"May this, Christ's rest, be yours."

Cultic indulgencences(bondage) too!

-----------------------------------------

Good News For The Day

‘But now that you know God-or rather, are known by God.’ (Galatians 4:9)

"The Galatians have inherited a new situation, in the gospel. They have come to know God. But having said as much, Paul checks himself, realizing that there is another way of saying that, which is closer to the truth: "Rather, now that God knows you." The first statement has the human agent in view. The second, centers on God. In Christianity, the work is not so much done by us, as upon us. It is not our recognition of God, but his recognizing us, that counts for everything."

"It is always possible for Christians to lose this perspective. They can become busy in service; anxiously involved in many programs; vigorous in their promotion of sacrifice, commitment, decision and loyalty. The result can be a hectic, stressful life, without serenity or assurance."

"Peace for the soul does not come from a religious experience that majors in what we are doing for God. The things we are doing are often not very good, and often they are fruitless. Spiritual rest comes from trust in what God has done for us."

"The human quest for God, is not and never will be the gospel. The gospel is God's quest for humanity. God, seeking us; God, finding us; God, not willing to let us go."

"Let me no more,
my comfort draw,
From my frail hold on thee."

"In this alone rejoice with awe,
Thy... mighty grasp---of me!"

40 posted on 11/19/2002 11:46:10 AM PST by f.Christian
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