The Institutes Book 1, Chapter 8

The Institutes of the Christian Religion ^ | 1500's | John Calvin

[ksen]

BOOK 1:
Chapter 1 - THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND OF OURSELVES MUTUALLY CONNECTED. - NATURE OF THIS CONNECTION.
Chapter 2 - WHAT IT IS TO KNOW GOD,--TENDENCY OF THIS KNOWLEDGE.
Chapter 3 - THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD HAS BEEN NATURALLY IMPLANTED IN THE HUMAN MIND.
Chapter 4 - THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD STIFLED OR CORRUPTED, IGNORANTLY OR MALICIOUSLY.
Chapter 5 - THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD CONSPICUOUS IN THE CREATION, AND CONTINUAL GOVERNMENT OF THE WORLD.
Chapter 6: THE NEED OF SCRIPTURE, AS A GUIDE AND TEACHER, IN COMING TO GOD AS CREATOR.
Chapter 7: THE TESTIMONY OF THE SPIRIT NECESSARY TO GIVE FULL AUTHORITY TO SCRIPTURE. THE IMPIETY OF PRETENDING THAT THE CREDIBILITY OF SCRIPTURE DEPENDS ON THE JUDGEMENT OF THE CHURCH.

[ksen]

Chapter 8 ping!

Ok gang, this one is going to take me a couple days to get through, but here it is for your edification.

[Corin Stormhands]

bookmarked

[RnMomof7]

Institute ping

[ksen]

In vain were the authority of Scripture fortified by argument, or supported by the consent of the Church, or confirmed by any other helps, if unaccompanied by an assurance higher and stronger than human judgement can give. Till this better foundation has been laid, the authority of Scripture remains in suspense.

Unless the Holy Spirit is witnessing to the heart of the Unbeliever about the truthfulness of the Scriptures, none of our well made arguments will be effective.

[ksen]

Nay, they even dare to question whether there ever was a Moses. Were any one to question whether there ever was a Plato, or an Aristotle, or a Cicero, would not the rod or the whip be deemed the fit chastisement of such folly?

It's amazing that no matter how much time passes, the same tired, old arguments are brought out against the Scriptures.

[ksen]

But it is foolish to attempt to prove to infidels that the Scripture is the Word of God.

So where does this leave all of our Apologetics?

Should we bother trying to convince Unbelievers through argumentation?

[Jean Chauvin]

I won't be with ya until at least tomorrow night.

Jean

[RnMomof7]

Should we bother trying to convince Unbelievers through argumentation?

This is a strong defense of the truth and source of scripture..

I do not believe it is possible to convince anyone of the truth or source of the scriptures ..however that does not mean we are not to present and defend it...God has ordained the means of faith and it is the hearing of His word..

[CCWoody]

Should we bother trying to convince Unbelievers through argumentation? ~ ksen

I cannot recall a single scripture which says we should try and convince the infidel.

John preached the gospel of the kingdom of God as a command:


• Mat 3:1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The Lord preached the gospel of the kingdom of God as a command:


• Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

We are commanded to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God as a witness:


• Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Woody.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[CCWoody]

The Institutes I, vii, 4 ~ ...the testimony of the Spirit is superior to reason. For as God alone can properly bear witness to his own words, so these words will not obtain full credit in the hearts of men, until they are sealed by the inward testimony of the Spirit. The same Spirit, therefore, who spoke by the mouth of the prophets, must penetrate our hearts, in order to convince us that they faithfully delivered the message with which they were divinely entrusted.

[CCWoody]

The Westminster Larger Catechism

Q. 4. How doth it appear that the Scriptures are of the Word of God?

A. The Scriptures manifest themselves to be the Word of God, by their majesty[7] and purity;[8] by the consent of all the parts,[9] and the scope of the whole, which is to give all glory to God;[10] by their light and power to convince and convert sinners, to comfort and build up believers unto salvation:[11] but the Spirit of God bearing witness by and with the Scriptures in the heart of man, is alone able fully to persuade it that they are the very word of God.[12]

[ksen]

Thanks for the answers Woody, but I am not talking about witnessing to the Lost, of course that should be done. I am talking about trying to win arguments with Unbelievers.

For example, I posted a Bible Contradiction thread in response to an Unbeliever who said he knew of plenty of inconsistencies in the gospel of John. If the Unbeliever I plan on talking with engages in the debate, am I just wasting my time and Jim's bandwidth?

[ksen]

Here is a question: Is the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached to the lost sheep of the house of Israel the same Gospel that we preach to the world today?

[RnMomof7]

Thanks for the answers Woody, but I am not talking about witnessing to the Lost, of course that should be done. I am talking about trying to win arguments with Unbelievers.

Is there a difference? Are not unbeliever "lost"

[ksen]

I think there is a difference. On the one hand you are just out to defend your position. On the other you are seeking to impart facts that will lead to Salvation.

The difference may be subtle and only in the motives, but it is there.

[RnMomof7]

I think there is a difference. On the one hand you are just out to defend your position. On the other you are seeking to impart facts that will lead to Salvation.

Ya really think so? I am very outspoken Kevin you know that ..but never do I quote the word without the full expectation that it can bring faith..

When you read Acts you do not see Peter giving a gentle presentation..instead he is out to prove the correctness of his doctrine..He even points a finger at them ..BUT the word of God NEVER returns void it ALWAYS accomplishes what it is intended to do..no matter how weak a vessel is delivering it or his intent:>)

By defination all unbelievers are lost..IMHO..and the word of God will do its work:>)

[ksen]

I am very outspoken Kevin you know that ..but never do I quote the word without the full expectation that it can bring faith..

But YOU are a rose among thorns. ;^)

[RnMomof7]

LOL..was that a valentines gift?

[CCWoody]

Thanks for the answers Woody, but I am not talking about witnessing to the Lost, of course that should be done. I am talking about trying to win arguments with Unbelievers. ~ ksen

1 Co 9:19-23

Woody.

Be always ready to give a defense to everyone....