so long as there's a Welcome Wagon waiting at the border – offering free education, free health care, free welfare and a free lunch.

He's got that right. We don't need 'economic immigrants' we need freedom-minded immigrants, the kind who love the constitution before they even get here.

idx

I hope Harry Browne isn't like most of the Libertarians I have seen on Free Republic that believe in open border insanity. In reality what we are doing is supporting the poor migrant population of another country whose own government wouldn't lift a finger. That puts a massive burden on our own nation, which at any time would be too much, but in the midst of a recession is unbearable. Why would we do this? First, political whores need votes, illegal as they are. Second, employers want the cheapest possible labor force, illegal as they are. Third, and last but not least, the government social welfare and public assistance industry bureaucrats want as many "needy" bodies as they can get in order to justify their own existence and expand their careers and agencies, which is exactly what is happening. Who loses? All hardworking, taxpaying American citizens and legal residents who are not only decent law abiding people, but who will never be eligible for the very kind of public assistance their tax money pays for if they lose their jobs or their spouse dies. So, not only are we taxpayers bankrolling illegal parasites and the bureaucrats that serve them, but losing even more the hard earned income we need to survive. If this continues, there will be massive social upheaval, all for the sake of damned corrupt, greedy, and dishonest groups and individuals that could care less about the security and stability of our nation and its people.

"Futility of laws"

As a Federal Law Enforcement Officer with INS, I'd like to say that the laws in place are not being enforced.

Management refuses to let us fully enforce the current laws. Worksite enforcement is a joke. We must give employers 48 hours notice of a worksite inspection, and then when we arrive, guess what, no illegals, go figure.

The INS is in need of massive reform. Hopefully, Bush and Ashcroft will do just that.

In reality what we are doing is supporting the poor migrant population of another country whose own government wouldn't lift a finger.

You missed the point of the article. 'In reality' you are supporting our huge government and a lot of lazy people. Getting rid of free lunch programs will stop people who don't support themselves from coming here. Regards.

"Political promises to keep America free of the great unwashed masses are just one more political scam – a subterfuge by which to steal more of your freedom."

What I've been trying to say all along.

Wanna stop illegal immigration? NO MORE WELFARE! Illegal Immigration is cut in half, and the half that do come are the one's we want in the first place.

FYI

"Wanna stop illegal immigration? NO MORE WELFARE!"

Ending welfare would do relatively little to ease the immigration problem. For example, most Mexican immigrants don't come for welfare. They come for the jobs Americans won't take because of the low wages and poor working conditions. I would be happy to pay more for agricultural products if they were produced with American labor. We have organic farming. How about American farming?

Mexicans used to come here to work, and some still do. Many, however do not. Even if they do work, free school, healthcare, ect... is provided to them after they get here. Then they send for the rest of the family. They are not stupid. If we give them stuff, they will take advantage of it.

I would be happy to pay more for agricultural products if they were produced with American labor.

Fine. Turn over every piece of produce you buy. There's a sticker on almost every one, giving country of origin.

As for me, I want the best products at the lowest prices.

You actually believe there'll be lines of people to pick tomatoes, at ANY wage?

Immigrants will continue to stream into this country, legally or illegally, so long as there's a Welcome Wagon waiting at the border – offering free education, free health care, free welfare and a free lunch. We need to put the Welcome Wagon out of business, so only people looking for freedom will want to come here.

And ALL government agencies and employees should immediately stop speaking any language but English.

"As for me, I want the best products at the lowest prices."

I see. I think you should also consider the long-term effects of the current immigration trends. What will the continued importation of low-skilled labor mean for the political future of your state, Texas? Take a good look at political map of the 2000 elections. The southern parts of the state, with large immigrant population, went decisively for Gore.

"You actually believe there'll be lines of people to pick tomatoes, at ANY wage?"

No, but if we cut off the cheap labor supply for agribusiness it would create a huge incentive for them to pour money into developing new, less labor intensive, farming technology.

What will the continued importation of low-skilled labor mean for the political future of your state, Texas?

Bush took nearly 40% of the Hispanic vote in his second run for governor. I also don't think we just give up on Hispanics.

No, but if we cut off the cheap labor supply for agribusiness it would create a huge incentive for them to pour money into developing new, less labor intensive, farming technology.

And I guess you also want to keep imported produce out of the US, too? There is no "technology" for picking tomatoes and some other delicate vegetables. Has to be done by hand.

I hope Harry Browne isn't like most of the Libertarians I have seen on Free Republic that believe in open border insanity.

Of course he is. The problem with the Libertarian position on virtually anything is that when taken out of context with all the other issues in the platform, it sounds wacko.

If the welfare state were eliminated totally, torn out by the roots, we wouldn't need to restrict immigration because unworthy parasites would either work, starve, or find someone both willing and stupid enough to support them. The reason we get them now is because we're forced to support them.

"Bush took nearly 40% of the Hispanic vote in his second run for governor. I also don't think we just give up on Hispanics."

I just checked the exit polls numbers for Texas for the 2000 elections and it seems that 43% of Hispanics voted for Bush. I must say I'm quite suprised and might have to take back some things I wrote earlier on this thread. However, I still wonder how he did among naturalized citizens. In any case, I hope you are more successful with Hispanics than the California GOP.

"And I guess you also want to keep imported produce out of the US, too? There is no "technology" for picking tomatoes and some other delicate vegetables. Has to be done by hand."

No, I support free trade. I just don't think people are a commodity that should be included in the definition. As far as farming goes, I find it hard to believe that in our age such harvesting technology would prove to be impossible to develop.

Harry Browne, as usual, makes some good points. And he is right as to the effect of the Welfare State on the quality and quantity of our immigration. (See How The Welfare State Works.)

But Americans do have distinct cultures; and preserving them is very important not only as a matter of sentiment and family pride, but for the continuity of the institutions that flow from those cultures. The free Society that Harry Browne strives to maintain, reflects some of the very unique cultures of America.

A sense of ongoing ethnic identity is also very important, whenever America is threatened from without. Anyone who fails to consider this not only denies history, but common sense. This is not to say that many new arrivals have not fought valiantly for America in time of danger. Many have indeed. But in the past we have had a clear ongoing sense of purpose. As that erodes, the cohesion and sense of something worth dying for, erodes also. Eventually, you come to a point where no one is quite sure what they are supposed to be fighting for, and the problems we had in Viet Nam multiply.

You cannot preserve a national existence without a sense of family--of lands where my fathers died, etc.. When the flood of newcomers becomes so great--even where they are ethnically very similar to the natives--as to seriously dilute that, you can also have problems.

Many of the older posters will remember how Americans rallied at the start of World War II to the song, Remember Pearl Harbor, as we did the Alamo. That song, obviously, appealed most to the most rooted. But it vicariously also appealed to those immigrants of a European background, who had arrived since the middle of the Nineteenth Century, but who clearly wanted to share the spirited society that did in fact remember the Alamo. I seriously doubt that Harry Browne would try to argue that that song would have the same effect on the Mexican immigrants arriving today.

This is not to put anybody down. But we have one heritage, they have another. And this is not just about economic issues--not at all. It is, indeed, rather shameful that so many are willing to try to reduce this debate to one over economics.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site