Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Loose tail may have brought down Airbus
Guardian/UK ^ | 11/14/01 | Audrey Gillan and Ed Helmore in New York

Posted on 11/13/2001 11:48:01 PM PST by kattracks

A rattle heard on cockpit tapes could mean that the stabiliser's bolts were coming out

Investigators looking for the cause of the latest disaster to hit New York City, the plane crash that killed at least 262 people, have switched their focus to the aircraft's tail, aviation sources said early today.

Evidence from the first of American Airlines flight 587's black-box recorders turned attention away from earlier speculation about mechanical failure in one or more engines, or the notion that birds might have been sucked into the machinery.

Instead, it is thought now that the pilots' mentions of rattles, caught on the cockpit voice tape, might have been unwitting references to a loosening of the bolts fixing the vertical stabiliser to the tail.

The two engines and the bulk of the fuselage landed on the peninsula suburb of Rockaway, five miles from the aircraft's takeoff at JFK airport; the vertical stabiliser and part of a wing were found in the water west of the impact zone.

The airbus would have been uncontrollable without the stabiliser. The first rattle is noted 107 seconds into the flight tape and the next, 14 seconds later; the recording becomes silent after a total of 144 seconds. Investigators are looking at whether the bolts came loose through overload or stress fatigue. They have not ruled out sabotage, the sources said.

A preliminary inspection of the engines showed "no evidence of any sort of internal failure", investigators reported yesterday.

"They all appear to be in one piece," George Black of the national transportation safety board told a news conference.

The possibility of a bird strike - one or more birds being sucked into one or both engines causing them to fail -was one of the elements the inquiry team was considering at that point.

There have been documented failures involving the family of CF6 General Electric engines, the type installed on the plane, though none has involved fatalities.

The Airbus A300 dropped from the sky minutes after taking off bound for Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic on Monday morning.

Mr Black mentioned the rattling noises heard in the cockpit, but gave no indication at the press briefing of what his experts thought had caused the noise.

From takeoff to the end the tape lasted less than two minutes 24 seconds, Mr Black said.

The first part of the flight, with the co-pilot at the controls, seemed to be normal. Then the rattles became audible, he said, and the pilots made several comments suggesting loss of control before the cockpit voice recording ended. There was nothing on the voice recorder to suggest an intrusion by hijackers into the cockpit - a possibility already ruled out by the fact that the plane broke into pieces before it hit the ground.

At first the crash of flight 587 raised the spectre of another terrorist attack, after hijacked planes crashed into buildings in New York and Washington on September 11.

Mr Black said mechanical sabotage before takeoff had not been eliminated from the inquiry.

"We're not going to exclude that possibility until the investigation goes much further than this," he said.

The black box retrieved from the rubble caused by the plane as it ploughed into the seaside community of Rockaway in Queens showed that the pilots had little warning before the plane began to nosedive.

Yesterday, divers recovered the flight data recorder, which will help the investigators to work out more. They will also consider the structural integrity of the plane, because both engines fell off as it nosedived to the ground.

The joints with the wings will be closely examined, as will the state of the fuselage.

The maintenance records of the plane, which was 13 years old, and those involved in servicing it, will also be studied.

Mr Black said it was "way too early" to connect the crash with other failures involving this type of engine. But he added: "We will be looking at that."

Investigators had earlier told the Wall Street Journal that the discovery of debris in one engine suggested that the engine did not suffer a catastrophic failure from some mechanical breakdown but from sucking in sucking in birds.

A bird strike would not fully account for the apparent mid-air break-up of the plane, but investigators said it could set off a chain of events in which the burning engine damaged other parts of the plane.

Birds have been a problem at JFK in the past. The airport lies near a seashore wildlife preserve where various migrating species stop over at this time of year.

If birds are to blame, ornithologists say the most likely suspects would be white egrets, which fly close together in large numbers.

Birds are estimated to cause an estimated $500m-worth of damage to US civilian and military aircraft each year.

A group formed to raise awareness of the problem, Bird Strike Committee USA, says that more than 400 air deaths in the US can be linked to bird strikes.

"This is a worldwide problem," said Martin Lenhardt, a biomedical professor at the Medical College of Virginia and inventor of a microwave device to scare birds away.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: flight587
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 221-239 next last

1 posted on 11/13/2001 11:48:01 PM PST by kattracks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: kattracks

Counterfeit Bolts as a Possibility in NYC Plane Crash? (vanity)


2 posted on 11/14/2001 12:00:12 AM PST by xm177e2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Why was the last 30% of this article centered on the now discredited "bird strike" theory of the failure of Flight 587? The article body was quite clear the engines were apparently intact, disproving the bird scenario. Instead, they are looking at catastrophic failure of the tail, specifically the vertical stabilizer.

Look for sabotage on the bolts...

3 posted on 11/14/2001 12:04:55 AM PST by Swordmaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker
george black was on gma,d. sawyer asked if they were testing for explosives. george looked down and his eyes darted back and forth. he then said no, there was no reason to test for explosives.
4 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:02 PM PST by Rustynailww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
The FBI was discounting terrorism as a cause of American 587's crash before any investigation had taken place. They also tried to blame the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing on Richard Jewell without any evidence of it.
5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:05 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
if in fact the problem is with the tail, and if it is not a terror attack (loose bolts or otherwise), shouldn't the government be grounding all airbus planes as a precaution? something smells fishy and it is not just the tail pulled out of the bay
6 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:06 PM PST by mlocher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Instead, it is thought now that the pilots' mentions of rattles, caught on the cockpit voice tape, might have been unwitting references to a loosening of the bolts fixing the vertical stabiliser to the tail.

I understand that the rattling sound could have been the tail shaking, but wouldn't that have been a constant sound? The NTSB mentioned two distinct episodes of rattling sound, didn't they?

7 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:08 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rustynailww
Looking at photos of the recovered vertical stabilizer, it doesn't appear as if it was blown off with explosives, nor was there even the slightest dent or ding in it, to indicate that it had been struck by a piece of a disintegrating engine. How such a catastrophic failure of a major flight component of the aircraft happened is really baffling.
8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:09 PM PST by Zorobabel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Since the vertical stabilizer appears to have come off so cleanly, wouldn't a LOT of bolts have to have failed at once and all at the same rate? I mean we're talking an only a couple of minute window here. I could see one or two bad bolts failing, but enough to allow the v.s. to cleanly let go?
9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:09 PM PST by mewzilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

there was no reason to test for explosives.

I'm awaiting for the Partin report, just in case.

10 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:10 PM PST by dbbeebs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla
And I meant to add, if it was the bolts, then they either had help, or there could be a bad batch of bolts out there, in which case any plane with them ought to be immediately grounded and checked out.
11 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:10 PM PST by mewzilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: xm177e2
Divers recovered the flight data recorder???

It fell into the water along with the tail???

This would indicate serious air-frame failure prior to the crash. Very strange...

12 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:10 PM PST by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Who were the people that serviced that airplane before it flew? Any Muslims, by any chance? Beginning to sound like sabatoge.
13 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:12 PM PST by jrlc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DB
I heard on the news that they found the black boxes in the Queens neighborhood.
14 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:13 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla
Strange how terrorism is being immediately "ruled out". How the hell does anyone know that? Terrorists don't necessarily need bombs.....they can turn wrenches. I am not a conspiracy nut, but I get suspicious when things are "ruled out" within 24 to 48 hrs.
15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:16 PM PST by Northpaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Northpaw
Especially when the rest of the NTSB's pronouncements usually arrive at a glacial pace.
16 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:17 PM PST by mewzilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
How would the tail section ripping off the end cause a fire in the wing section as reported by eyewitnesses?
17 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:18 PM PST by Wm Bach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mlocher
f in fact the problem is with the tail, and if it is not a terror attack (loose bolts or otherwise), shouldn't the government be grounding all airbus planes as a precaution? something smells fishy and it is not just the tail pulled out of the bay

BINGO! Fishy indeed.

Half of the article is devoted to birds when it has already been shown that the engines were not to blame. They "showed no evidence of any sort of internal failure." According to investigators. No damn birds! This smells.

18 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:18 PM PST by mc5cents
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Investigators looking for the cause of the latest disaster to hit New York City, the plane crash that killed at least 262 people, have switched their focus to the aircraft's tail, aviation sources said early today.

I am pleased that the brilliant society at the NTSB finally noticed that the whole tail section came off first and intact and was sitting at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. Like, that couldn't have caused the crash, d'ya think??

19 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:18 PM PST by KellyAdmirer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
The same thing bugged me, too. Before any checking had been done they were theorizing it was an accident and set out to prove the same. Had they wanted it to be terrorist related I suppose they would have set out to prove it. On both accounts, they wouldn't (and aren't) be very objective. Even if it was an accident, their actions proved they are capable of covering it up. I trust them even less now.
20 posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:19 PM PST by Jaidyn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 221-239 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson