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It's time to get this off my chest
Gulf1 ^ | 12/2/01 | Col. Robert L. Pappas, USMC, ret.

Posted on 12/01/2001 10:55:46 PM PST by ppaul

On November 26th, Larry King hosted US Secretary of State Colin Powell for a wide-ranging discussion of the War on Terrorism. It was an excellent performance by General Powell who deftly maneuvered through the maze of King's "land mines." A long time commentator, anchor and moderator of "FACE THE NATION," CBS News chief Washington correspondent, Bob Schieffer, followed General Powell. It was the latter interview that prompts this essay. Messieurs King and Schieffer were involved in a dialogue about how the American people are reacting to the War on Terrorism.

SCHIEFFER: "... it's a story on two fronts, but it's a story that we not only are covering, it's a story that we know whose side we're on here. This is not covering Vietnam, where there's a big debate over whether American troops ought to be sent off to some country that none of us had ever heard of before the troops went there. To help people, form a democracy, or whatever it was we were trying to do." "...And I'm still not sure we really know."

SCHIEFFER: "This (ed. note, the attack on America) is something where these are our people. These were Americans, innocent Americans, women and children. I now know two people who died."

KING: "Do you?"

SCHIEFFER: "As a result of this. And I mean, this is something we were all involved in. So this is different."

Ah, yes. How "marvelously" arrogant and blissfully ignorant, "THIS IS DIFFERENT."

With that "pile" of bovine scatology, scar covered wounds that have been slow healing for decades were reopened as with a rusty knife. The wounds came, not just from the 500 missions this writer flew, not only from being shot down, and not even from enduring the capture or loss of close friends. The lasting wounds came from serving the interest of a nation whose political, educational, entertainment, and spiritual leaders understood pathetic little of the reasons for US involvement, and could have cared less about the men and women who served there.

The scars came from protecting the broad interests of a generation that did not deserve it, and who to this day are so arrogant and ignorant as to believe that they were righteous in their opposition to the Vietnam War. It is this writer's assertion that it was the United States' action in Vietnam, in conjunction with the brilliant geopolitical skills of Richard Milhous Nixon notwithstanding his lack of other virtues, that rendered the first body blow to the Soviet Union, thus stemming its quest for world domination and resulted in its eventual collapse both as an economic system and totalitarian, evil empire and has made possible unprecedented economic well-being.

The beauty of this great Republic is that Americans are able to exercise constitutionally guaranteed freedoms without fear of government reprisal. In this land, unlike most others, reasonable people can disagree on issues of importance without resorting to violence, as was eloquently illustrated during the 2000 elections. It was for the Constitution, for freedom and the blessings of liberty that the writer devoted a major portion of his adult life in the armed service of this great nation.

Schieffer's manifest bewildering, arrogant and ignorant attitude about the Vietnam War reflects the attitude of many during the sixties and early seventies. In fact, his and others with similar attitudes grown large gradually affected the outcome of that war and the loss of 58,000 patriots. Although the writer has strongly held opinions about that war, they are about the conduct thereof not about its underlying purpose.

In the early 1990s, Mr. Russ Davis wrote a commentary in the Utica, New York, "Observer Dispatch" titled, Let God sort sinners from the saints. In the article he exemplified a segment of the U.S. population whose behavior during the Vietnam War was characterized as heroic by some and dishonorable by others. Fleeing to Canada or spending time in jail was for them a welcome alternative to the risk of dying in a poorly understood and worse, poorly executed war.

Traditionally, through the elective process, patriotic loyalty has been imputed in the nation's elected leaders; and by extrapolation to the nation, states, communities, and ultimately to one another. Mr. Davis' article noted above touched lightly on the essence of loyalty when he described a man who he greatly respected, but who did not come to grips with the reality of his own student deferment until he faced the "names on The Wall." There, in front of Davis' friend was the name of someone he knew and who out of loyalty to his fellows, to the Constitution of the United States, had the personal integrity to do what was difficult but right; and that made it possible for Davis' friend to live a fulfilled life.

Given Schieffer's contemporary remarks, memories of the Vietnam War evidently remain as clouded by ignorance, arrogance and perhaps benign malice today that was virulent and rampant during the War. Distortions of reality thus created, made it impossible then and difficult even now for people on opposite sides of the issue to objectively assess US involvement. Those over the age of sixty should be able to recall that the overarching US policy of "Containment" was first devised during the Truman Administration, and was ultimately responsible for US involvement in that War.

The "Containment Doctrine" as it was called, resulted in the US government negotiating mutual security treaties with a number of nations on the periphery of the Soviet Union, the Peoples Republic of China and other communist nations. Communism's rate and methods of expansion made it a real threat with frightening prospects and the aforementioned mutual security treaties constituted a bulwark against unrestrained worldwide territorial expansion. Communism was branded in many ways, but none more aptly than by President Reagan when he labeled it the "Evil Empire."

There were many skirmishes during the Cold War: Korea, the Taiwan Straits, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam and others that occurred on a daily or weekly basis. The Communist, mirroring Free World strategy, attempted to contain the Free World in much the same way that the Free World was endeavoring to contain communism. Revisionists, motivated by their anti US biases, are hard at work attempting to alter the factual historical record.

One treaty created incident to "Containment" was the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO), of which South Vietnam was a member. North Vietnam, through its agents in the south, and with its own national military and paramilitary forces, set about to overthrow the Government of South Vietnam. That eventually led to direct U.S. involvement during the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, although there was minimal military advisory involvement as early as the Eisenhower administration.

As a patriotic young officer who was born and nurtured as a God fearing anti-communist, this writer believed, and continues to believe that the US did the right thing but in the wrong way. Strategically and tactically the Vietnam War was poorly executed, but that did not have to be. The U.S. possessed the national resources and military power, the strategic and tactical skills and the training to achieve the same results in Vietnam that were achieved in the Gulf War, and although "school is still out," the War on Terrorism. But time, political ignorance, and such notables as a much younger Bob Schieffer, Russ Davis, Jane Fonda, Bill Clinton and others too numerous to mention here, as a practical matter, rendered aid and comfort to the enemy, undermined the national will and resulted directly or indirectly in the death of 58,000 Americans.

Incompetent political leadership at the highest levels of the Government from top down, who lacked a fundamental understanding of war, its purposes and prosecution, and who were mesmerized by McNamara and his whiz kids, squandered U.S. military power and diplomatic prestige. Meanwhile, the streets of U.S. cities filled with people responding to the drumbeats of the divisive, undermining "fifth columnists" in education, entertainment, government and religion, and, to legitimate confusion.

Was Vietnam a military defeat? No! Contrary to media hype and rhetoric, the Vietnam War was not a military defeat; rather it was a political and moral defeat. Though that did not seem to have an immediate, apparent effect on American security; South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos fell into communist hands, while Indonesia and Thailand were seriously threatened. The genocide that historically followed communist takeovers, and estimated to be in the tens of millions remains beyond civilized comprehension.

One cannot refrain from disparaging the Johnson Administration that came to power under tragic, even questionable circumstances, behaved in a discreditable manner, and squandered America's treasure, youth, and moral authority. Johnson's arrogant ignorance, thinking and behaving as though Ho Chi Minh was some Texas country bumpkin politician who he could "jaw bone" into submission, and envisioning himself to be some grand military strategist did nothing but harden Ho Chi Minh's resolve, divide the country, alienate US allies, prolong and complicate the War and increase the total number of casualties.

As though this was not enough, there was an important and broader picture that the Schieffers of the world failed, indeed did not seem to want to see, and who are only now coming to appreciate. It was a larger "picture" of the vital need to be loyal to one's neighbors, friends, to one's nation and its armed forces, and for personal integrity; and at the national level, the need for credibility with respect to the nation's mutual security treaties and ultimately the security of each U.S. citizen, individually and collectively. That "picture" was brought into sharp focus by the dastardly attack on the World Trade Center, (instead of far off places like Vietnam, or attacks on US Embassies, ships, or people), that the Schieffer's of this country are finally able to grasp the importance of patriotism, journalist or not. The following dialogue illustrates what is meant.

SCHIEFFER: "As a result of this. And I mean, this is something we were all involved in. So this is different."

KING: "And when it's we and them, you weren't covering things in World War II, which I imagine was similar in that regard."

SCHIEFFER: "Yes."

KING: "Does that cause you any difficulty, journalistically to be a "we" journalist?"

SCHIEFFER: "I think and I must say and maybe this is bad, maybe this is good. I've thought about this. I think in times like this, we do tend to give the government the benefit of the doubt. Under no circumstances would any journalist, any responsible journalist I know, disclose plans, or disclose any kind of troop movements or anything else that would put someone's life in danger."

Give us a break! During Vietnam, self-righteous "talking heads" and reporters made great sport of divulging military plans and strategies that undermined the war effort and cost perhaps hundreds if not thousands of American lives, divided the nation and lead to humiliating national defeat.

Military service is an honorable hallmark of the American experience born of the quest for survival and freedom. Regrettably, and tragically, that great American hallmark was soiled and desecrated during the Vietnam War by the previously mentioned persons, i.e. Fonda, Clinton, and etc.

It is sadistic and twisted irony that those who fled, evaded the draft or otherwise avoided military service and whose real purpose was to preserve their cowardly skins, have been elevated to the status of hero, while those who responded honorably to the nation's call, in too many cases have become the derelicts of American society. And yet, it is those "derelicts" of every war (none of which were lily-white) before, during and after Vietnam who, though fearful for their own safety, underwrote the nation's existence with their lives and sacred honor. They made it possible to foster an environment in which the nation could flourish; and they protected it so that the benefits of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" could be enjoyed by such lesser souls as Davis, Schieffer, Fonda, Clinton and other ignominious persons.

The millions who served honorably during the Vietnam War do not know or want to know all of the unworthy "Davises," "Fondas," "Clintons" and "Schieffers" in this country, but they know who they are, and they have to live with it. And though Schieffer's words were eloquently spoken during the Larry King interview, no amount of deodorant can cover the rotten stench of that generations' unsavory behavior, nor can this belated surge in their patriotism grant respectability to those who, by their actions of draft evasion or contrived avoidance of military service irreparably marred their honor and betrayed their fellow countrymen.

The blood of the heroic "lambs" who served and died in their place covers their otherwise unbearable stench, and only that freshens the air for the rest of us.

Semper Fidelis



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1 posted on 12/01/2001 10:55:46 PM PST by ppaul
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Snow Bunny; RonDog; ALOHA RONNIE; Travis McGee; SkyPilot; wardaddy...
ping.
2 posted on 12/01/2001 11:02:23 PM PST by ppaul
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To: Norb2569; AgThorn
ping.
3 posted on 12/01/2001 11:06:23 PM PST by ppaul
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To: ppaul
Give us a break! During Vietnam, self-righteous "talking heads" and reporters made great sport of divulging military plans and strategies that undermined the war effort and cost perhaps hundreds if not thousands of American lives, divided the nation and lead to humiliating national defeat.

Military service is an honorable hallmark of the American experience born of the quest for survival and freedom. Regrettably, and tragically, that great American hallmark was soiled and desecrated during the Vietnam War by the previously mentioned persons, i.e. Fonda, Clinton, and etc.

4 posted on 12/01/2001 11:08:18 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: ppaul

5 posted on 12/01/2001 11:08:26 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: ppaul
You are absolutely correct. Many thanks, from a member of the " WAR BABY " generation, who prayed for your welfare, thanks you for serving, and FOUGHT the airheaded idiots who protested the Nam War, while you suffered great pain and hardship.

My eternal thanks, and GOD bless you.

6 posted on 12/01/2001 11:08:35 PM PST by nopardons
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
"persons, i.e. Fonda"


Wicked Witch of the West:
Hanoi Jane Exposed in New Book

7 posted on 12/01/2001 11:12:40 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: ppaul
I think we're pretty much in agreement here. I won't listen to five seconds worth of talk about Nixon's supposed war mistakes. Johnson put 550,000 troops into Vietman before Nixon was president. Then the Democrat Congress tied Nixon's hands essentially preventing him from waging a winning campaing. There's going to be some pretty surprised self-rightous a.h.s when judgement day comes.
8 posted on 12/01/2001 11:13:56 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
Ping )))))))

9 posted on 12/01/2001 11:15:08 PM PST by america-rules
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To: nopardons
"Many thanks, from a member of the " WAR BABY " generation, who prayed for your welfare,"

God Bless You
10 posted on 12/01/2001 11:16:53 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
A case can certainly be made for charges of treason and betrayal of our good men and women in our armed forces during the Viet Nam war by Pres. Johnson, Pres. Nixon, MacNamara and others ALONG with the media.

The public STILL has no idea what b@stards they were.

11 posted on 12/01/2001 11:19:06 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Thank you.

May HE bless and keep YOU too, my dear.

12 posted on 12/01/2001 11:20:10 PM PST by nopardons
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To: DoughtyOne
"I won't listen to five seconds worth of talk about Nixon's supposed war mistakes.
Johnson put 550,000 troops into Vietman before Nixon was president.
Then the Democrat Congress tied Nixon's hands essentially preventing him from waging a winning campaing."

I was in Viet Nam under both Johnson and Nixon for an equal period of time.
There was no difference in either one.
Both were Commander-in-Chief. That is where the buck stops.
Can you imagine Bush saying we can't win this war because Congress or the media won't let him like Nixon did.
Nixon "quit" the war and America to this day blames the troops that fought it.
IMHO what really heated up anti-miltary hate in the US was when McCalley (sp?),
was "given" house arrest by Nixon for the Mei Lei massacre.
Nixon and Kissenger were to busy making deals with Red China to open trade and what did it get us?
An enemy that Clinton could do business with.
And today Russia is more of an allie than China has ever been.
13 posted on 12/01/2001 11:33:28 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: F16Fighter
"The public STILL has no idea what b@stards they were."

No, but WE do!
14 posted on 12/01/2001 11:36:47 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
And our red trading "partners," the Communist Chinese, have their nukes aimed at us right now.
15 posted on 12/01/2001 11:36:59 PM PST by ppaul
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To: ppaul
Semper Fi
16 posted on 12/01/2001 11:38:27 PM PST by VaBthang4
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Do you remember the NVC's stalling on the peace talks? They were making rediculous demands for the shape of the peace talk tables. For months at a time they stalled and acted as if they were plenty happy if the talks never took place. They were able to do this because Congress was damning Nixon every step of the way. They were ready to cut off funds.

Nixon finally ordered extensive bombing of the Hanoi Harbor. Finally the NVC came around. But Congress blew a gasket that Nixon was bombing the harbor. And when he placed mines in that harbor, Congress didn't back him at all.

How many times did Nixon order heavy B52 bombing of the North only to have Congressional leaders damn him and demand he stop it?

Fact is, our troops were a lot safer after the heavy bombing. Supply routes along the Ho Chi Minh trail were disrupted and it took them time to resupply.

In the field you may not have seen the dynamics back home. But I can tell you that it was embarassing as hell to watch guys like McGovern and others go after Nixon. I felt the same way about them as I did Fonda.

18 posted on 12/01/2001 11:47:31 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: ppaul
1964-70 Army Bump!
19 posted on 12/01/2001 11:47:35 PM PST by SurferDoc
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To: ppaul
SCHIEFFER: To help people, form a democracy, or whatever it was we were trying to do." "...And I'm still not sure we really know."

hello?? the US has said it will complete its objective and get out! We will assist them in forming a government until they no longer deserve the help.


This reminds me of a PBS special I saw a decade ago where Dan Rather (or as it Tom?) and Peter Jennings said they would not intervene if they saw US troops heading into an ambush. They'd be 'objective'.
20 posted on 12/01/2001 11:56:04 PM PST by GeronL
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