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Basic Engineering?
a friend via internet | 12/31/01 | unknown

Posted on 12/31/2001 3:55:49 AM PST by johnandrhonda

Basic Engineering?

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet 8.5 inches. That is an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used?

Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English build them that way? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did "they" use that gauge? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

So why did the wagons have that particular odd spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that was the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads? The ruts in the roads, which everyone had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels, were first formed by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for (or by) Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

The US standard railroad gauge of 4 feet 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's backside came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Thus we have the answer to the original question.

Now for the twist to the story. When we see a space shuttle sitting on it's launching pad, there are two booster rockets attached to the side of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRB's. The SRB's are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRB's might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRB's had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site.

The railroad line from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' rumps.

So, a major design feature of what is arguably the worlds most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass!

So, there!


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS:
Don't know who wrote this or if it's really true, but it sounds plausable and it is fun to read. Happy New Year!
1 posted on 12/31/2001 3:55:49 AM PST by johnandrhonda
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To: johnandrhonda
I think it's fairly accurate. Very few things are invented that are not based solidly on what came before. There's just one thing, though. The Romans did not use "war chariots". Chariots for war were long obsolete in the Roman world before they ever came to England. However, the Roman army did use lots and lots of wagons

Julius Ceasar and those he taught, however, did not use even wagons when he had to move quickly. He had his armies load nearly everything onto mules, and only put his artillery onto wagons. His armies were then expected to cover between 30 and 40 miles per day, and then build a fortified camp each night.

2 posted on 12/31/2001 4:12:40 AM PST by jimtorr
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To: johnandrhonda
"...So, a major design feature of what is arguably the worlds most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass!..."

I wonder if, 2000 years from now, people living on a world that circles a star that we can't even see from here without a telescope will read a similar story about some everyday thing whose size is reported to have been circuitously dictated by the width of HILLARY!'s ass.

And if that 'thing' is a garage door, will there be any historians with enough integrity to challenge that easy conventional wisdom, and postulate that garage doors were instead designed to accommodate the 'Wide-Track' Pontiacs of the 1960's?

3 posted on 12/31/2001 4:13:39 AM PST by DWSUWF
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To: DWSUWF
There is a fallacy in the reasoning behind this article. All horse's asses are not the same width and density. Hillary's ass and intelligence being a good case in point.
4 posted on 12/31/2001 4:23:12 AM PST by meenie
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To: johnandrhonda
Snopes says this urban legend is false.
5 posted on 12/31/2001 4:35:47 AM PST by Maceman
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To: meenie
"...There is a fallacy in the reasoning behind this article. All horse's asses are not the same width and density..."

Fair enough.

But a biologist might butt in and point out that the range in variability in horse's ass-width isn't that great, and that 4'-8.5" is an accurate 'mean' for a horse's ass X 2.

Then my wife might point out that nobody's a meaner horse's ass than I am, when things aren't working out well.

"...Hillary's ass and intelligence being a good case in point..."

Here you are on more solid ground.

I believe that a mathematician can easily determine an equation showing the inverse relationship between the width of HILLARY!'s ass and her intelligence.

Biologists might speculate about the peculiar transport mechanism that appears to be moving her brain (which, like all nervous system tissue, is mostly fat) from her head to her ass.

Dieticians might compare the density between her rump and a bowl of Jell-O.

Anthropologists might speculate whether HILLARY! is more closely related to mankind, or striped-ass apes.

The possibilities are endless.

6 posted on 12/31/2001 4:41:34 AM PST by DWSUWF
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To: Maceman
Nice.
7 posted on 12/31/2001 4:42:43 AM PST by fourdeuce82d
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To: jimtorr
Uh, beg to differ, at least on terminology.

Caesar didn't have artillery, per se. If you want to loosely consider such items such as ballistas or catapults as such, then, okay. But he didn't enjoy the wonders of gunpowder.

8 posted on 12/31/2001 4:48:02 AM PST by DK Zimmerman
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To: Maceman
Snopes declares it false, then takes the long way about saying it is basically true.

They do that with a lot of things: The short answer is that it is false but when you go through it point by point you find out it is true, just not in quite the same way that the urban legend presents it.

9 posted on 12/31/2001 4:49:26 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: johnandrhonda
If you are bringing horses' posteriors into the discussion, you have to account for the equine paradox, which is this: There are more horses asses in the world than there are horses. Hillary being a case in point.
10 posted on 12/31/2001 4:51:52 AM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: hopespringseternal
You described it well.
11 posted on 12/31/2001 4:52:13 AM PST by ghostrider
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To: DWSUWF
You seemed to have solved that amtrak problem in a round-abutt way. Chariots may have been running as fast as amtrak. But they did not carry as many people. Insurance was lower and there was no concern for gas explosions. Well maybe a little equestrian reflux.
12 posted on 12/31/2001 5:32:07 AM PST by hottomale
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To: johnandrhonda
Backwards compatibility rules!
13 posted on 12/31/2001 5:43:17 AM PST by LenS
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To: johnandrhonda
The US standard railroad gauge of 4 feet 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever.

Not so.

The Straight Dope: Was standard railroad gauge (4'8*") determined by Roman chariot ruts?

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Was standard railroad gauge (4'8*") determined by Roman chariot ruts?

18-Feb-2000


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Dear Cecil:

I recently was sent this interesting story by an Internet friend. Is this true? --Dave Shorr

Cecil replies:

Nothing I like better than getting to the bottom of some well-known bit of netlore. Dave attached the following, which has been making the E-mail rounds over the past year or two:

The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is four feet, eight and a half inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the U.S. railroads.

Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the prerailroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long-distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.

So who built these old rutted roads? The first long-distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of its legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts? Roman war chariots made the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Thus, the standard U.S. railroad gauge of four feet, eight and a half inches derives from the specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.

Specs and bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two warhorses."

Funny? Sure. True? Yes and no. Follow the line of development with me and you'll see what I mean.

(1) U.S. track gauge based on UK track gauge. True. While most U.S. railroads were designed by U.S. engineers, not British expatriates, a number of early lines were built to fit standard-gauge locomotives manufactured by English railroad pioneer George Stephenson.

(2) UK railway track gauge based on width of earlier tramways used to haul coal. More or less true. Although tramway width varied widely among regions, those in the coal district in the north of England, where Stephenson began his work, used a gauge of four-foot-eight.

(3) North England tramway width based on wagon-wheel spacing. Not literally true--there was no standard wagon-wheel spacing. However, wagons and their wheels averaged five feet in width, since this size would conveniently fit behind a team of draft animals. The North England tramway gauge apparently had been arrived at by starting with an overall track width of five feet and using rails that were two inches wide. Five feet minus four inches for the rails equals four-foot-eight. (I'm skipping some complicated history here, but that's the gist of it.) Stephenson later widened the tracks a half inch for practical reasons, making the standard gauge four feet, eight and a half inches. While this is an "exceedingly odd number," it derives from a basic track width of five feet, which is not odd at all.

What about Roman war chariots and rutted roads? Roman "rutways," many of which were purposely built to standard dimensions, were close to modern railroad tracks in width. For example, the rutways at the buried cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum averaged four-foot-nine center to center, with a gauge of maybe four-foot-six. But there's no direct connection between Roman rutways and 18th-century tramways. The designers of each were dealing with a similar problem, namely hauling wheeled vehicles behind draft animals. So it's not surprising they came up with similar results. (Thanks to University of Munich economic historian Douglas Puffert, an expert on railroad gauge, for kind assistance in tracing this story.)

Bonus info!  I didn't have room in the printed column, but another version of this legend adds the rococo touch that the solid rocket boosters (SRBs) used on the space shuttle are manufactured at a Thiokol plant (I presume in Utah), then shipped to Florida by rail for final assembly at the launch site. The rail line passes through one or more tunnels en route, and the SRB pieces had to be made small enough so they'd fit through the tunnel bore. Thus, the legend triumphantly concludes, the dimensions of one of our most advanced vehicles was determined by the size of one of our most ancient!

True? Again, yes and no. A NASA spokesperson confirms that railroad tunnel dimensions were a constraint that had to be taken into account when designing the SRBs. However, tunnel dimensions are less a function of track gauge than of rolling stock width. U.S. railroad cars are quite a bit wider than those in England because parallel tracks are placed farther apart. (I'm talking tracks, not rails here, capisce?) As a consequence, U.S. railroad tunnels typically are wider too. So you can't really make the case that the size of the space shuttle's boosters was determined by the width of a couple horses' butts.

More bonus info! I came across the following in the book Gordian Knot: Political Gridlock on the Information Highway by W. Russell Neuman, Lee McKnight, and Richard Jay Solomon:

[A]s an accident of history most road carriages in the the Middle Ages inherited the old Roman cart gauge of approximately 4 feet, 8-1/2 inches. Julius Caesar set this width under Roman law so that vehicles could traverse Roman villages and towns without getting caught in stone ruts of differing widths. Over the centuries this became the traditional standard.

Richard Solomon, the source of this bit, has elaborated in a message posted to the net that Caesar decided on standard gauge after seeing a "grooveway" at the isthmus of Corinth in Greece. This was a purposely built set of ruts used to guide the wheels on carts carrying goods being transshipped across the isthmus. Prof. Solomon says he personally measured an excavated portion of this ancient grooveway and found it had a gauge of four feet, eight and a half inches.

Coincidence? That was my reaction. But this claim about an edict by Julius Caesar was something new--it's not mentioned in any of the standard histories of Roman roads I've seen. I've exchanged E-mail with Prof. Solomon trying to learn his source, but he was on the road and couldn't provide a cite. Watch for late-breaking bulletins as your columnist continues to pursue this story.

One last thing. I have heard tell of certain wheel ruts having a gauge of you-know-what at the gate to an old Roman fort called Housesteads on Hadrian's Wall in the north of England. Legend has it that George Stephenson based the gauge he used for his locomotives on the width of these ruts. Here's what Housesteads by James Crow (Batsford, London, 1995, pp. 33-34) has to say on the subject:

The gauge between the ruts is very similar to that adopted by George Stephenson for the Stockton to Darlington railway in 1837 and a 'Wall myth' developed that he took this gauge from the newly excavated east gate. There is a common link, but it is more prosaic and the 'coincidence' is explained by the fact that the dimension common to both was that of a cart axle pulled by two horses in harness (about 1.4m or 4ft 8in). This determined both the Roman gauge and Stephenson's, which derived from the horsedrawn wagon ways of south Northumberland and County Durham coalfields.

Just as I said. 

--CECIL ADAMS

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Cecil Adams can deliver the Straight Dope on any topic. Write Cecil at the Chicago Reader, 11 E. Illinois, Chicago 60611, or E-mail him at cecil@chicagoreader.com.

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14 posted on 12/31/2001 5:53:12 AM PST by aruanan
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To: DWSUWF
You are so funny!
Those responses were the funniest thing I've read this morning!
Thanks!
15 posted on 12/31/2001 6:33:28 AM PST by senorita
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To: johnandrhonda
This is so old I read it before there was an Internet, or even a DARPA-net. In other words, from the days when everything was hard copy, which preceded the Jurassic period.

--Boris

16 posted on 12/31/2001 6:44:59 AM PST by boris
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To: DK Zimmerman
Actually, DKZ, I believe the term artillery predates gunpowder weapons, as in the Old French artillerie, or artiller (to fortify). In any case, the term is used to mean anything that hurls projectiles larger than a machine-gun or a hand-held bow.
17 posted on 12/31/2001 8:14:39 AM PST by jimtorr
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