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The United States ordered its non-essential diplomats in Saudi Arabia to leave the country due to heightened security fears in the kingdom and urged US citizens there to leave.

It's the right thing to do. Whoever starts screaming that it means surrender needs to check the facts about that part of the world. I got called names yesterday because I defended another country's similar decision.

"members of a deviant minority,"

I'll be hugely surprised if someone shows me a single person in Saudi who doesn't belong to that minority.

I think the point is that we and the Russians are still at odds in regard to our national interests, and that will lead someday to conflict.

"At odds" is a very mild way to put it. It's a covert war. NATO is besieging Russia and the explanations given are all but laughable. NATO attacked Serbia - a fact that everyone here points as a mistake. Hello, why an organization that tends to make such stupid mistakes is still around? It's of no use in Iraq! Why it keeps the policy of closing in on Russia, long after the SU is gone along with its military alliances? There is no rational answer to these questions but one - preparation for a war. One resembling the Serbian war. Over a province. That's why nukes and missile defense are being moved in close proximity to Russia - to scare them into not using theirs. There is no other rational answer. Common sense is way more reliable than politicians.

Neither you nor we know, who wants this Clash, and what it`s good for. I just want peace.

I know and I was trying to tell you. But it won't give you peace. BTW "I just want peace" is what every king conquered by the Ottomans was telling the Sultan. Some even gave him more wives... If you want peace stay out of the way but don't claim to to know good from evil.

Goebbels,"Back to reality, the war can't stop now!" Berlin, 1943. No offense, his words.... We hate war because...

"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire. "The first to bring up the Nazis loses the argument" - Godwin's law. You are not addressing the consequences, you are just scared to make a decision that was botched before by some people you know. "Waxing it philosophical" comes to mind. I don't mind it, but don't confuse your confusion for wisdom.

The Turks sieging Vienna are at home now...

The German army, strangely, took very little part in it. That job was left to others. Unlike killing Europeans... Besides, aren't the Turks now in Germany- all 80 million of them?

Come down... "We" are still ruling this world, not by Cruise Missiles, but by $ and €. In my view, this is just a provoked "clash of civilisations". My "european view"...

Provoked by whom? Started by whom? The $ and € fundamentals of that "rule" are quickly disappearing. Not in my or your pockets. You obviously are not very current in economics and politics. The real war, my friend, is within. The rest is a mere extension. Shut down that TV and start looking around.

BTW, nothing personal. I know plenty of people with your attitude.

The war in Iraq could fit in a broader anti-terrorist campaign. But it doesn't. Back to reality, the war can't stop now! I'd rather ponder the direction it should take than reconcile the peculiar way the Europeans fight their wars - by killing millions of... other Europeans. But when it comes to somebody else, their hands hang limp and they start waxing it philosophical... It's no coincidence that the Ottoman Empire went so deep inside Europe.

The US image problem is largely a media creation. Media is something than the Euros really don't grok.

That said, I agree that the present events are not good. We keep spending on security with no decisive action or an end game strategy. The events seem to be aimed at perpetuating spending rather than at solving the problems. This is not in the interest of either US or Europe. To me, it looks like the latest suicide attempt of the Western Civilization.

Do you think that China and Europe will wait till the checkmate?

Depends on what their kings get offered as compensations. The history shows that they usually get greedy eyes and consistently make the wrong decisions in the end game. Time will tell.

What is the job ? Kill all people who do not want live in US-approved way ? Then you'll need to war with Russia too, and with China as well. Bright future ?

The job is to install a strong secular government. Which means to be firm to everyone who oppose it. Just like Russia did, when they leveled Grozny. Russia will not fight with US over it. On the contrary, if the right targets are set up, they might help. If not, they might protest as the US protested when Grozny was leveled. Bu they'll do nothing beyond that. For the time being the problem is the NATO deployments around Russia and nothing else

BTW, I've noticed there is a large amount of Islamists trying to provoke hatred between Christian countries.

At the time many were arguing that if Russia leaves Afghanistan the Muslims will stop hating it. Didn't work, did it?

Right, it didn't. For the record I think that leaving Iraq now will be a disaster. But so will be leaving Iraq in June. Or at any time before the job is finished. I'm not sure that "nation building" is the name of job though. And only the lesser part of it is in Iraq.

Do you know such game ending like "Chinese draw"?

I don't but I can offer a guess. Would that be the one where all the pawns are dead?

The US is firmly committed to the war on terror.

The terror starts in Saudi and Quatar. You've got the wrong map in your hands. The terror restst on greasy oil money and the US over-dependence on Mid East oil.

What are the "more effective ways to fight terrorism"?

Simply lifting the gas tax will do much more against terror than fighting PC wars. Investing in nuclear plants will help too. Political and economic pressure pressure on the financiers of terrorism. Only then will the case for a real war emerge. From post 132:

I also consider Afgan war to be rational step in the war with terrorism and many of russians think so. But Americans do nothing or doing to little in this country. Iraq war is not so. Saddamic Iraq was really anti-terrorost and anti-islamic regime. It was wrong step to begin struggle against it. The funds of terrorism are in Saudi, Emirates and Qatar. 132 posted on 04/14/2004 7:53:45 AM PDT by Constantin Degtiarev

Let us discuss fair with solid facts in hands

He'll never let the facts stand on his way. The Russians were the only ones that supported the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. They saved that power from extinction while the US was sending money to the Taliban. That power carried the ground war in Afghanistan. Without it the casualties would be more than in Iraq. Russia did invaluable service to the US in Afghanistan - never to be recognized. On the contrary, we have belmont here calling them terrorist supporters. No wonder the Russians don't cooperate any more. They've got new NATO weaponry deployed along their borders. That's a strange way to say "Thank you"...

Unfortunately, many of common people will become terrorists as a result of this war.

The way the war is going, THIS seems to be the plan! Another hot button for global destabilization is being created. The common folk everywhere will suffer the consequences. Including the US. The global "chess game" became much more than a mere gambit - it's a real sacrifice - at the altar of the globalists.

I hope they don't know something that we do not.

Yes, they do. They know that NATO is amassing power along the Russian borders. They have one war of their own already and are preparing for the next, the real one. Iraq for them is a diversion. They want to make sure they won't get entangled in it and waste precious resources. This move is not shortsighted. It was shortsighted to allow their people in Iraq on the first place.

There is little distinction between money and power. Power gets money, money gets power.

That's the entire problem my friend. More so that you seem to accept it as the natural state of affairs. The conversion of money to power is called corruption. The goal of the US Constitution was to make that hard. A society where money is easily convertible to power can never be a free society. It's not democratic by definition and I'd argue that it cannot be called capitalist either. Because, power is used to shut down competition and progress - silly regulations, silly patents, silly (but expensive) lawsuits, tax barriers, tax holes, you name it. Money is supposed to give people food, shelter, etc NOT power over other people. Personally I think it's all over. The US is being sold out. The politicians are selling power, the very one the we gave them. With no production left in the country, there is nothing tangible left. Except power - that was built by prior generations. But its fundamentals are already lacking and quickly disappearing. It won't last. Hence the fire sale - we have the best politicians money can buy, remember...

Corporations are conspiring to lower wages across the board. In the short term this is a good strategy, but in the long term, how are they going to be able to charge higher or even current prices for their products?

You are mistaken. The multinationals don't want only money, they want the power too. They don't care about themselves being rich, they care about you being poor and powerless. Ponder this for a while, it means a lot.

gay parades in Saudi Arabia?...please say you forgot your sarcasm tag

No, I was just lazy. But you get the main point. There is a difference between what the media (and the majority of politicians) push here and what they accept there. But the human rights case is strong against Sharia countries, stoning, enslaving of women, you name it... And not a peep from any government.

While you rightfully question the wisdom of indiscriminate killing, you offer no solution. And solutions without killing there are aplenty. The most innocent one is to slap a 100% tax on gasoline and build nuke plants. Painful but good. The oil consumption will go down, and so will the oil money going into the hands of lunatics. The best thing to do though, is to impose trade restrictions on countries who live under Islamic law. Such were in place for the commies who were much nicer than the Sharia madness. "Human rights" - you know? Why there is no "human rights" pressure on Saudi Arabia? Why not woman rights and gay parades in Saudi Arabia?

Regarding Iraq, just bomb (not shoot - bomb) any place that fires any kind of munition at our troops. That will do it.

Its going to be tough for awhile, JUST AS WAS PREDICTED. Now is not the time to panic.

AIT wrote a very eloquent post and made his points. Contrary to your post, there was no panic in his... If you've predicted going from bad to worse and you are happy to see yourself right... which side are you on? The war should not be going according to some insane plan, it should be WON. And there is no victory in sight. If the Islamists take power a few months after withdrawal, we will register a major DEFEAT - with dare consequences for the US security and political stability. May be that's the plan. I can't tell anymore.

You could buy the screening kit and test your beef yourself.

Or I could buy the calf and feed my own cow! Much safer and cheaper than your proposal to test every piece I buy. I could even go further, buy the metal make my own car, house, everything. If you follow your own advice you should deal with this "offending" company yourself. Why do you want the government to do it for you? You seem to be running against yourself...

It is to the East that we must turn, dear readers. After all, it is in the East that the sun rises and in the West that it sets.

Well, well... "The East" was (and is) developed exactly by whom? And Why? Another oops.

Anybody wanna play with the troll?
I'm getting bored.

You lost your credibility.

I'm quite familiar with the "context" of the quote, and it bears no resemblance to your "WMDs for sure" lie.

The true context is here:
Poland was 'misled' on Iraqi weapons, president says

I stand by everything I said. I really wish all the problems I mentioned were just unfortunate misunderstandings within the administration. I have no evidence to believe it though. As for your eagerness to be punctual, replace the quote from the SOTU for my "WMDs for sure". Read the whole thing again. Tell me if there is any difference. Or tell that Aznar and the Polish. May be they'll be more understanding than I am. And yes "$43 million to the Taliban none for the Northern Alliance" is a well documented fact not a "fantasy".