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Loyal? That has nothing to do with it. The truth is what it is.

Doug Reese

Bowing not necessary, but appreciated :)

To answer your questions I would ask you to read both the after-action report, and the citation given to Kerry a week after the incident. The citation pretty much follows the after-action report.

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/PDFs/SeaLords270.pdf

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/PDFs/Silver_Star.pdf

You can see that the answer to your first question is yes. But your second question is based on something which is not in the citation.

Doug Reese

He wasn’t unarmed and he wasn’t a teenager. . . . you got the wounded part right though.

Doug Reese

To answer your second question, yes, that’s me.

Doug Reese

Yes. “There” being with the three boat group that went up the canal that day. I spoke to Kerry a few minutes after this particular portion of the action took place.

The twin-50 gunner (Fred Short) would have liked nothing better than to shoot that VC, but the safety bar surrounding the gun tub prevents the gun from depressing to that degree.

Keep in mind that the VC was initially in a hole, just off to the right of the boat — quite close, perhaps 20 ft or less.

So it was left to the M-60 guy (Tommy Beladeau), but his gun jammed after a few rounds. But Tommy did hit the VC in the leg . . . but he got up and took off, with the B-40.

As I said, what happened is in the after-action report.

Doug Reese

PS. What kind of plane? What part of VN?

“And people who where on those river cruises witness to the fact the clown blew away a fleeing un-armed goon with the fifty mount located on his craft one time he approached the shore line when enemy where spotted. I was not there.”

Correct, you weren’t there. And, like many who weren’t there, you have managed to come up with observations made by NO ONE who was there.

I was there. And I, along with the 24-25 others who were there, have never said the guy Kerry killed was unarmed. In fact, he had a B-40.

No one has said he was shot by the twin-50. In fact, that guy was wounded in the leg by the forward M-60, as mentioned in the after-action report. He was able to get up and run. When shot by Kerry he was turned back toward the boat.

Doug Reese

I see where you were spit on in the summer of 1969. Surely you aren't blaming Kerry for that, are you?

Many guys took photos in Vietnam -- I would venture to say that most did, from conversations I've had with other vets about that. And as for 8mm movie cameras, the PXs over there sold thousands of them.

And don't believe the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" lie that Kerry returned to the site where he received the Silver Star and re-enacted anything. He didn't. He took some film of the area right after it happened, but there was no re-enacting. Most of the footage he took in Vietnam was of the scenery -- he was hardly in any of it.

Welcome home.

Doug

Well, some of what you wrote is factually incorrect.

The best example is what you said about Steve Gardner and Unfit for Command. I have the book right here. There are no quotes by Gardner in the portion of the book that covers the Silver Star incident. The reason being that Gardner was not present for that action.

Prove me wrong, and the $1,000 is yours.

Also -- the date on the tombstone was in fact Jan 12, 1969.

It is also a fact that Jan 12 1969 in the lunar new year is "our" February 28, 1969.

This is not my opinion, but a statement of fact.

And when I spoke to two survivors of that incident in March, how do you think they knew the date -- the correct date, I might add?

Keep in mind I just went to the area where this event happened, which wasn't all that difficult for me because it wasn't all that far from the village where I lived in 1969. When I found some local people who knew about an incident involving these Navy boats (the Swifts only went up that canal twice -- Feb 28 was the first time), I questioned them.

I asked if there were any survivors, as I knew there was at least one, because I remember seeing one guy running away that day. These people said yes, there are two survivors, and they said they lived nearby.

They came over and we spoke. I asked them the date. Since everyone killed that day was a relative (except for the guy with the B-40), they had no trouble remembering the date -- Jan 12, 1969. Sound familiar?

Anyway, there is no question in my mind that those people, especially those two survivors, were there that day.

You shouldn't let your dislike for Kerry color your view of incidents which clearly happened. They may not have happened they way you'd like to believe they happened, and they damn sure didn't happen the way the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" would like people to believe they happened. . . . . . . . but facts are facts.

You don't like Kerry for his senate record? Fine. You don't like what he said or did after returning from Vietnam? That's fine too.

But when you make statements which are clearly not factual, you dishonor his service. You dishonor my service, and you dishonor the service of the 23 other guys there that day.

Doug

I realize this is an article posted by, but not written by, CyberAnt.

The Article Says: On Thursday, October 14, 2004, ABCs Nightline produced a story about Kerry’s service in Vietnam, highlighting only one incident - an incident supposedly earning Kerry a Silver Star.

Did ABC conspire with the Kerry campaign to MAKE THIS STORY HAPPEN?

Doug Says: No.

The Article Says: ABC proceeds to the purported exact location of the Silver Star incident and finds Vietnamese villagers who (in front of a government minder) tell this fantastic story about Kerry’s heroism (it was in great detail - even after 35 years).

Doug Says: The remembered in great deal because it happened in their front yard, and a number of their relatives were killed. One tends to remember such things.

And it isn't the "purported" location of the incident. It is the actual location of the incident.

The Article Says: At no time during the program did ABC explain to the public that the villagers they were interviewing lived in a closed society, and that these villagers would be watched over by government minders, and that these villagers were only being interviewed at the express consent of the Viet Cong. This omission, of course, led the public to assume the villagers were able to speak their minds, freely – but it led me to conclude the statements by the villagers were most likely rehearsed ahead of time and subject to restrictions.

During this interview with the villagers, they take ABC to see a grave which ABC is told is the gravesite of the young soldier Kerry killed (during the Silver Star incident) - except - there is a big problem with the grave marker - the date of death on the gravestone reads as January 12, 1969, and the Silver Star incident occurred on February 28, 1968.

Doug Says: First of all, the incident happened Feb 28, 1969 -- not 1968. Second, the people who live in the countryside use the lunar calendar. And guess what? Jan 12, 1969 lunar year = Feb 28, 1969 western year/calendar.
That is a fact.

The Article Says: That would mean - the soldier who was supposed to be buried in that grave died 11 months after the incident in question - but one of the villagers told ABC that the person died the day of the incident. This is very troubling?

Doug Says: No, it isn't. What is troubling is how little you actually know about any of this.

The Article Says: The villagers continued their testimony, which is chillingly similar to Kerry’s after action report, as well as Kerry’s citation for the Silver Star (both of these documents were written by Kerry).

Doug Says: Wrong again -- a person does NOT write up their own citation. The reason that what the villagers said to Nightline was close to the after action report is, well, because that's what happened.

The Article Says: It's no wonder Ted Koppel was irritated with John O’Neill. O’Neill would not capitulate to Koppel’s demands that O’Neill accept the new information regarding the Silver Star incident as truth. O’Neill would not accept the new information because there are 3 other pieces of documentation (2 of them Kerry biographies), and one of them an eye witness account, all of them with the same details but telling a completely different story than the one espoused by ABC’s report and Kerry’s after action report and Silver Star citation.

Doug Says: Sorry, but wrong again. Kerry's after action report, and the citation issued March 1969 (the "first" citation) are detailed and correct. O'Neill uses a later citation, as he knows (as do I) that it is not totally correct.

The Article Says: Part of the new information ABC learned from the villagers (who were still being watched over by the government minders) was that the young person Kerry was forced to kill was not a teen, but a 26 year-old Viet Cong soldier from North Vietnam; the leader of a group of about a dozen other Viet Cong soldiers who were in hiding, planning to scuttle the Swift boats. These were the men Kerry had written about in his after action report as being “an overwhelming force” (which Kerry supposedly killed), and Kerry’s report also stated the same group of men was actually firing at his boat.

Doug Says: Sorry, but there is not a single word in the after action report about an "overwhelming force" and/or Kerry killing them. That is another fact.

The Article Says: There may be other issues involved in this Silver Star incident, but the age of the person killed, whether or not the person killed was alone, and whether or not Kerry’s boat was being fired upon, appears to be the main areas of contention between the 2 different accounts of the incident.

The problem: Kerry’s after action report and Silver Star citation (which you remember were written by Kerry), and the testimony from the villagers (under the control of VC government minders) are the only documentation ABC used for their program. The Boston Globe book and Brinkley’s Tour of Duty book both have the original story that there was only a wounded teen that was killed, and no shots were fired at Kerry’s boat. And, according to O’Neill, those accounts agree with the statement Steve Gardner (Kerry’s gunner) also tells in the 3rd book, Unfit for Command.

Doug Says: The problem is that the person who wrote this article has no idea what the heck he is talking about. I mean, 38 comments about this post, and not a single person realizes that it is so full of inaccuracies?

First of all, those books do NOT say there was just a single teen killed. Second, they do NOT say Kerry's boat was not being fired upon -- ALL the boats were being fired on that day.

Lastly, Steve Gardner does not say ONE WORD ABOUT THIS INCIDENT in Unfit for Command. Why? Because he wasn't in Vietnam! He wasn't there when the incident happened.

Prrove me wrong about Gardner -- I say he did NOT comment about this incident in Unfit for Command -- and I'll give anyone $1,000.

The Article Says: O’Neill was justified in being angry that no one at ABC had ever bothered to interview any of the American Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (especially those who had been in Vietnam during the incident) -

Doug Says: Some were in Vietnam when the incident happened, but NONE were at the site of the incident! So why should they be interviewed?

The Article Says: but instead – ABC was willing to rely on former enemies of America (from a closed society) in order to try to establish Kerry's after action report and his Silver Star citation as the only truth regarding the Silver Star incident.

Conclusion: Kerry gave information regarding his time in Vietnam to the Boston Globe and to Mr. Brinkley – both of whom wrote books about Kerry. These 2 books concur with the O’Neill book, Unfit for Command, regarding the Silver Star event. The Silver Star event in the O’Neill book was told by Steve Gardner, the gunner on Kerry’s boat.

However, what is disturbing is the after action report and the Silver Star citation – both written BY KERRY – tell a very different story than the 3 books. It was the after action report and Silver Star citation (which was written by Kerry) which ABC used to base their program on, totally ignoring the other 3 accounts of the Silver Star event. I find it even more disturbing that Kerry has 2 versions of the same event.

While it may be difficult for some to believe, the villagers conveniently agreed with Kerry’s after action report and Silver Star citation. I believe this program by ABC was done for the express purpose of re-establishing Kerry as a war hero, and also to discredit – one more time – O’Neill and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. What I find even more disturbing is that ABC was willing to discredit decorated AMERICAN veterans, while accepting the testimony of fake witnesses who were (and remain) America’s enemy, and while ignoring the fact that Kerry has only responded to 2 of the charges made by the O’Neill book.

Doug Says: Conclusion -- the person who wrote this piece needs to read up a little on what happened, as what I read is a total joke.

The Vietnamese ABC spoke to were there. They saw (partially) what happened Feb 28, 1969. The Americans who were there (there were about 25 of us), to a person, have no problem with Kerry receiving the Silver Star. None of us agree with what John O'Neill has to say about what happened. He misrepresents the facts, omits fact, and spins. Boy does he spin!

I cut the remainder of this poor excuse for an article.

Doug