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If she wasn't in every other commercial, I would not know who she was. The video at the link is the first video and song I have seen/heard. Not impressed.

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Anyone that has advanced that much in popular culture is suspect. And the "worship" is truly creepy. I've liked a few songs in my younger years, and even attended a few concerts of popular groups. I've met hundred's of athletes, actors, politicians, musicians in various jobs. Never had the urge to worship. Although I would kiss Eric Dickerson on the cheek - he was awesome at SMU.

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The majority were just normal people. I spent the evening with Patrick Swayze and wife promoting Dirty Dancing. I don't know if a more humble or kind couple ever existed. I was 7" taller than Patrick, so that might of helped. No, but they were both just humble people who stumbled into fame - certainly more came later.

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Rebecca De Mornay was another I met in her prime. This was after Risky Business and probably the height of her popularity. She was so sweet. I took some things to her hotel room - it took a lot of begging the publicist to find an excuse for me to go - and she treated me like I was the most important person in Dallas - And I was just some goofy intern at the time.

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Guy Lafleur was another that blew me away. Did not have an agent and agreed over the phone to be a part of a don't drink and drive campaign. His accent made the conversation even more entertaining.

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I'm getting off topic. The point was most celebrities I met were quite normal, but there were a handful that I believe truly sold their souls to be famous. I saw this in an Arkansas Governor that was rumored to be the DNC nominee. I was staying at the Excelsior hotel in Little Rock, and Bill Clinton gave a speech to the convention I was attending. I was a young head full of mush college student at the time. Never in my life have I had so many red flags go up inside over someone I met. In my spirit, I knew there was something very wrong with this guy. I then observed him hitting on the many coeds who were in town - truly disgusting in every way. I vowed that I would NEVER support the DNC if they nominated him. They did, and I was done. And that was long before I knew anything about the drugs, murders, his philandering, or his spouse.

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Which brings me back to Taylor. I found the video at the link quite odd. If she truly wrote that of herself, there is quite the internal struggle there. I didn't get the "demonic" sense, but I certainly did not feel positive either. I don't know enough about her or her songs, just heard that she sings a lot about ex boyfriends. Which is not that uncommon in her circles.

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If I had young girls, I would do my best to find better role models than TS.

I was raised in a UMC and graduated from 2 UMC universities. Both parents very active - at church any time the doors were opened until graduation day. Grandfather was a circuit rider in the UMC. All of this is provided for context for my following comments.

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The UMC used to be a somewhat charismatic congregation in my youth. Bible study/teaching was a top priority. Spiritual gifts were appreciated and encouraged - although in the minority. Some pastors were anointed by God and preached powerful sermons under that anointing. Many knew the HEAD of the Body, and knew that those led by the spirit were children of God. That was then.

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By the time I graduated high school, three of the last four pastors at my home church couldn't tell the difference between the Holy Ghost and Casper the friendly ghost - Only a slight exaggeration. Many who were "spooky" (spiritual) were chased away, or worse, accused of heresy. Sermons that resonated in your spirit, were replaced with quiet talks about being nice or helping the poor. Nothing wrong with a social gospel, but those works come from being Born Again, and are most effective when God is leading. The UMC, from my experience, became overly focused on works and outward actions, rather than spiritual maturity first.

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The seminaries (or cemeteries if you prefer), kept graduating kids that know how to act like a Pastor, but know little about the Word, and even less about Spiritual things. They get in churches and instead of being led by the Spirit, and preaching the Word, they start doing worldly things to grow their church. And if you see the Bible as nothing more than some helpful advice, its not long before you start doubting God's Truth. All it takes is a little worldly pressure to cause you to compromise.

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IMHO, that is why the UMC is where it is today. I hope the split will grow life back into some churches, but I have concerns. The last one I attended, on my last day, played a Disney film and used it to reinforce that Sunday's message. This church voted to split.

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My oldest sister is the music minister for a "Reconciling" church as it is called. We spent a few hours discussing the issues that led to the split, but made no progress either direction. I do believe there are good people on both sides. They are so eager to keep the Love commandment and not "hate" that they compromise the Word. For me the key is simple. Jesus dined with sinners. He knew Judas was stealing, yet gave him plenty of chances (mercy) to repent. When He met the woman caught in adultery, He told her to go and sin no more. To me that is the key. Are they even attempting to set people free from the bondage of sin, or simply normalizing it, like fornication, adultery and many others.

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On the other side, the danger is becoming self-righteous, and adopting the attitude of the religious Jews of Jesus day, and wanting nothing to do with those dirty sinners.

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Either side could do good, if they go back to the Word, and let God be in charge. If not, I expect many of these churches to fade away, and the property sold. My sister's church has downsized to a PT pastor (semi-retired) and will likely be forced to merge with another congregation if they want to survive. She has given 20 years to this congregation, and about a third left over the vote to not split.

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None of this makes me happy. But God is in control, and good will come from this. I am confident that HIS CHURCH, the Body of Christ, is expanding every single day!

Thank you for the post.

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I'm sure many know this, so indulge me for those who do not. Leading up to Noah's flood...

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11 The earth was depraved and putrid in God’s sight, and the land was filled with violence (desecration, infringement, outrage, assault, and lust for power). Genesis 6:11 AMP

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13 God said to Noah, I intend to make an end of all flesh, for through men the land is filled with violence; and behold, I will destroy them and the land. Genesis 6:13 AMP

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The word for "violence" in both verses is Hamas H2555.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h2555/kjv/wlc/0-1/

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It appears 60 times, so there may be an even better connection in the Word to the events of today. I just think this seems appropriate, because I don't see anything for Hamas except total destruction in their future. They truly thought they could attack Israel, take hostages, and then win a PR battle playing the victim. And the Gazan squatters are daily and desperately releasing obviously fake images, AI generated, older images, crises actors etc. Judgment is coming like a flood.

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When the full scale of the attack was made known, and I believe we have only heard a small fraction of their cruelty, a Word came to me from Genesis.

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20 As for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring about that many people should be kept alive, as they are this day. Genesis 50:20 AMP

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This terrorist enclave was never going to work. The constant missile attacks, terrorist incursions, using the old, women, and children as human shields, propaganda - all of it was unsustainable. If there are a few Gazans who desire peace and security, it can ONLY happen with the utter destruction of Hamas, and radical islamists in the strip. So while the attack was horrific, Israel is solidly committed to ENDING the violence once and for all.

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Just think about ALL that Israel has endured for more than a decade - daily missile and mortar fire, terrorist attacks, random acts of violence, claims of genocide, mean un letters - it truly gets tiresome. Israel COMPLETELY abandoned Gaza giving it to the arabs - and they made it a terrorist camp. They gave satan an opening and he gladly filled it with his minions.

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We are certainly in the last days. And I still believe I will be alive for Jesus coming for His Body. That has been in my spirit since I was a child. Exciting times for Believers! Bad news for those aligned with the enemy.

Thank you!

Thank you. It was not a “fun” article to write.

I grew up in the church and have a long family history with the denomination. This is splitting my family, well one sister is still working for an “affirming” congregation - they call it Reconciling Ministry. My other sister and me had previously left.

Anyway, I share my thoughts here if you are interested.
https://harrisonshome.blogspot.com/2023/11/the-united-methodist-church-under.html

This is a classic case of creating a religious tradition and then cherry-picking Scriptures to find justification for your rituals. If this brief encounter is considered an example of the "eucharist" why not these:

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36 He took the seven loaves and the fish, and when He had given thanks, He broke them and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people.
Matthew 15:36 AMP

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6 And He commanded the multitude to recline upon the ground, and He [then] took the seven loaves [of bread] and, having given thanks, He broke them and kept on giving them to His disciples to put before [the people], and they placed them before the crowd.
Mark 8:6 AMP

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11 Jesus took the loaves, and when He had given thanks, He distributed to the disciples and the disciples to the reclining people; so also [He did] with the fish, as much as they wanted.
John 6:11 AMP

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And note the posture in John 6:11 - reclining at the table was common - not specific to any ceremony.

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5 When the disciples reached the other side of the sea, they found that they had forgotten to bring any bread.
6 Jesus said to them, Be careful and on your guard against the leaven (ferment) of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
7 And they reasoned among themselves about it, saying, It is because we did not bring any bread.
8 But Jesus, aware of this, asked, Why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? O you [men, how little trust you have in Me, how] little faith!
9 Do you not yet discern (perceive and understand)? Do you not remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many [small hand] baskets you gathered?
10 Nor the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many [large provision] baskets you took up?
11 How is it that you fail to understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But beware of the leaven (ferment) of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
12 Then they discerned that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Matthew 16:5-12 AMP

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Leaven is figurative for sin, in this case false doctrines, hypocrisy, self righteousness among others. Its amazing how much figurative language is used in the Bible. It must be carefully studied to avoid taking something literally, where a figure of speech is deployed to provide much greater depth of meaning. Greeks defined over 200 figures, everything from Acrostichion (Acrostic) to Zeugma (Unequal Yoke) to the common Metaphor (Representation). In the case of "this is my body" (Matt 26:26) it is historically proven if you ignore the clear rules of language, ignore the figure, and take this literally, you end up in the deepest of religious ditches for centuries. Body and the pronoun "this" are neuter, bread is masculine. This (bread) REPRESENTS my Body. Its simply the rules of language. A simple test, replace the verb (often - is) with represents. Does it work? Consider the parable of the sower in Matthew 13 for example. Figures are throughout the Bible and add much depth to the Word. We do a great disservice to God's Word by ignoring them.

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Its a 2 to 3 hour walk to Emmaus depending on pace and number of stops, about 7 miles. The disciples were sad, confused, and disappointed. They did not believe what Jesus promised. They were dominated by reason, not spiritually mature. So why did Jesus appear? I would suggest the same reason He appeared to Thomas. Thomas CONFESSED that he WOULD NOT believe, unless he SAW and TOUCHED Jesus. And note Jesus' response to Thomas.

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24 But Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 So the other disciples kept telling him, We have seen the Lord! But he said to them, Unless I see in His hands the marks made by the nails and put my finger into the nail prints, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe [it].
26 Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you!
27 Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe!
28 Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
29 Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and trusted and relied on Me.
John 20:24-29 AMP

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Scripture interprets Scripture. It helps to note what happened before and after, and also in other Gospel accounts. THEN, you can see the COMPLETE picture. Emmaus was one small moment among a VERY BUSY DAY for Jesus. Let's start with a very key statement in Luke that sets the tone for the day.

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10 Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who reported these things to the apostles.
11 But these reports seemed to the men an idle tale (madness, feigned things, nonsense), and they did not believe the women.
Luke 24:10-11 Amp

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Jesus used women to announce the greatest Revelation in the history of mankind, and even his disciples rejected it because it came from women! Just let that percolate for a time. Religious folks do really DUMB things. These Women were CONFIRMING the very WORDS of Jesus! Compare with John 20.

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So now we have two disciples heading to Emmaus. Disappointed and attempting to rationalize their time with Jesus. Just imagine, you thought your spiritual leader was THE ONE, and then the religious folks and the state, torture and murder him. Who would do that? How could anyone who claims to love God torture and kill someone like Jesus - accusing him of heresy? That is demonic behavior. Yet religion has done it for centuries, even those who claim to be Christian.

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13 And behold, that very day two of [the disciples] were going to a village called Emmaus, [which is] about seven miles from Jerusalem.
14 And they were talking with each other about all these things that had occurred.
15 And while they were conversing and discussing together, Jesus Himself caught up with them and was already accompanying them.
16 But their eyes were held, so that they did not recognize Him.
Luke 24:13-16 AMP

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What do you think "held their eyes" in this situation? The same thing that hampers so many people, especially religious folk - UNBELIEF.

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Jesus plays dumb and lets them recount the things that they had witnessed. And keep in mind, this is likely a 2-3 hour conversation, very important as we continue.

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19 And He said to them, What [kind of ] things? And they said to Him, About Jesus of Nazareth, Who was a Prophet mighty in work and word before God and all the people—
20 And how our chief priests and rulers gave Him up to be sentenced to death, and crucified Him.
21 But we were hoping that it was He Who would redeem and set Israel free. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things occurred.
22 And moreover, some women of our company astounded us and drove us out of our senses. They were at the tomb early [in the morning]
23 But did not find His body; and they returned saying that they had [even] seen a vision of angels, who said that He was alive!
24 So some of those [who were] with us went to the tomb and they found it just as the women had said, but Him they did not see.
Luke 24:19–24 AMP

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Note their description of Jesus - a prophet, a miracle worker (mighty in work), were hoping for a political deliverer, not a spiritual Savior. They had a very temporal view of Jesus. They also rejected the women's testimony, but rightly blamed the religious leadership. So much confusion all around as to what the events of the last week mean, and the plan and purpose of Jesus. So what does Jesus do?

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25 And [Jesus] said to them, O foolish ones [sluggish in mind, dull of perception] and slow of heart to believe (adhere to and trust in and rely on) everything that the prophets have spoken!
26 Was it not necessary and essentially fitting that the Christ (the Messiah) should suffer all these things before entering into His glory (His majesty and splendor)?
27 Then beginning with Moses and [throughout] all the Prophets, He went on explaining and interpreting to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning and referring to Himself.
Luke 24:25–27 AMP

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This is a strong rebuke, done in Love of course. This was no "liturgy" - My gosh, let the elevator reach the top floor! This was Jesus, PREACHING the Word. And since He is the ANOINTED ONE, THE LIVING WORD, He was teaching under the Anointing - so full of power. And the message RESONATED in their spirit. Their "hearts (were) greatly moved and burning within us while He was talking with us." A religious message will not do that. Neither will some customary public ritual of worship performed by a religious group. But boldly preaching/teaching the Word under the Anointing will.(Luke 24:32)

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What was Jesus teaching for 2-3 hours? We can only speculate. But He started with Moses according to Luke.

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Jesus would likely recount all the prophetic passages, the symbols and types. How each life like Joseph was a type of Jesus. Aaron's staff cast down and becoming a serpent (sin) swallowing all the Egyptian snakes (becoming sin to destroy its control) and then returning to Aaron. And Moses placing the brass serpent on a pole - sin being judged. The Word is all about Jesus, the Living Word - they cannot be separated. It is spiritual Truth, not the creation of man or religion. In Ruth He's our Kinsman Redeemer, Joshua - Captain of Our Salvation, Exodus - Passover lamb, Our Shepherd, Our Wisdom Our High Priest - and on and on.

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This was what Jesus taught the Emmaus disciples. And guess what, they had EARS TO HEAR. Faith comes from HEARING the Word. (Romans 10:17) So now by FAITH, they RECOGNIZED JESUS - their spiritual eyes were open and they could see Jesus through their natural eyes. And Jesus left - His work was complete with them. They didn't even eat!!!

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Why such details then on what you would consider as insignificant event?

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These two disciples were abandoning the movement. They were disappointed possibly disillusioned. They did not understand what just happened. Jesus arrived to CONFIRM that He was alive, and explain the TRUTH behind all that just occurred - in essence to BUILD THEIR FAITH so they would BELIEVE! This was not insignificant in light of so much unbelief at the beginning.

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Why would this be important for Luke to record?

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The passage runs for over 20 verses - hardly insignificant. What WAS insignificant is the "meal" that never happened, as the disciples - And rising up that very hour, they went back to Jerusalem. The breaking bread is 1 (ONE) verse. No mention of eating. No mention of wine or drinking. Feel free to read it again to doublecheck me. I do not see a ceremony, or even a full meal in that passage. I see two men who were transformed by God's Word immediately returning to tell the disciples what they saw and heard.

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This Supper with the Lord, was the VERY FIRST THING Christ did after he was Resurrected!

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No. This was not the first thing even mentioned in this Gospel account. The appearance to the women. The walk to Emmaus. Appearance to the 11. Its very likely Jesus appeared to many more that were not recorded. Let's not make this more than it is, or less. The HS recorded what was needful.

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Why he would spend all of Easter Day?

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Give me patience Lord! He did not. See above and the Gospel accounts. Let the WORD speak for itself.

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walking on a desert road- with 2 less known disciples - Yet it was important enough for Luke to write this down:

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I've covered all of this already. It was NOT a ceremony. It was not even a meal. This was only ONE verse among 20+ verses on this event. Hearing the Word and BELIEVING was far more important than the bread. The WORD is TRUTH. it is ALIVE and POWERFUL. Let IT SPEAK. Religious thinking will undermine the TRUTH. Most of us here are not pimping religion, our denomination or a church. My faith sits squarely on the WORD, not the reasonings of man, or his religious ideas. The WORD IS SOLID GROUND. (Matthew 7:24-27) Remember His statement to His disciples near Sychar - 34 Jesus said to them, My food (nourishment) is to do the will (pleasure) of Him Who sent Me and to accomplish and completely finish His work.(John 4:34)

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And for extra credit, why did Jesus say, "It is finished!" on the cross. What was finished? Consider this carefully in relation to the topic at hand.

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Bonus question #2. Where IS Jesus' Blood now? Jesus identified His resurrected (Glorified) Body as Flesh and Bone instead of the usual Flesh and Blood. Much was lost on the cross. But where did the rest go? (see Hebrews 9)

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39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself! Feel and handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.
Luke 24:39 AMP

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Read the Word, and BELIEVE!

I think if you look closely at John 6, the religious folks were MOST offended by Jesus claims to be the Son of God. Cannibalism and drinking blood were never a serious consideration. One of God's first laws for Noah forbid this, as the antediluvian antics were fresh in everyone's mind. (Genesis 9:3-5)

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John 5:17-18 (KJV) 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

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Everything Jesus did was offensive to the religious. None more so than when Jesus said God was his Father. Read John 6 and you will see this was a big reason for the departure and murmuring at the Capernaum Synagogue.

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John 5:24 (KJV) 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

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Hear the Word, and believe. Its the religious that make things complicated, not God.

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Having established the core message in John to this point, now we look at John 6 and the context.

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What did the crowd say? Were they really outraged about the figurative language? Consider the text again.

John 6:28-29 (KJV) 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

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Note what is required - that you believe in him. And this was after Jesus had told them they were just looking for more free food after the feeding the 5,000 miracle.

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John 6:30-33 (KJV) 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

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The religious folk were demanding a sign. They referenced Moses/Manna. Jesus provides a contrast - the Father gives the true bread which gives LIFE, not just sustenance.

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John 6:34-35 (KJV) 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

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There seems to be a breakthrough, so Jesus provides the key - faith in him.

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John 6:36-42 (KJV) 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

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Nothing stirred the pot with the religious more than Jesus claiming to be God's Son. Note the Jews murmured and complained about Jesus whose parents they knew, saying he came from Heaven. For the religious, the heresy hunters of that era, blasphemy was far worse than cannibalism or drinking blood.

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John 6:43-52 (KJV) 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

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Verse 44 is very important. The god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not. (2 Corinthians 4:4) And the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:14) These folks are not prepared to receive the Gospel, religion is blinding them. They did not really know God, or His Word, therefore, they did not recognize Jesus, the Living Word.

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Look at v.47 - He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. This is a spiritual message, not physical, and they do not understand. Note v.51 - the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. Jesus will give FOR the life of the world, NOT TO the world. Look what the Jews say in response - How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Notice who introduced cannibalism into the discussion?

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From John 1 forward, this Gospel continually reminds you that Jesus and the Word are the same. They cannot be separated. It is Truth. It is a common Hebrew expression to CONSUME God's Word, as seen in: Deuteronomy 8:3, Psalm 19:9-10, 119:103, 131, Jeremiah 15:16, Ezekiel 2:8-10, 3:1-4, Matthew 4:4, Hebrews 6:4-5, 1 Peter 2:2, Revelation 10:9-10. SO... in light of that, the figurative language makes perfect sense, especially when you note that Jesus said he will give his flesh, it was the religious that took that to mean cannibalism.

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John 6:53-60 (KJV) 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

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And now, Jesus provides the knockout punch, a 'hard saying' in a final attempt at a breakthrough. As with Nicodemus, it would be appropriate for Jesus to say here, John 3:12 - "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?" These folks were trapped in their own religious ideas.

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NOBODY, past, present, or future, would assume Jesus was going to saw off his arm and hand it to the Capernaum Jews to chew on. Nor would anyone assume they would be drinking his blood. As they said, it was a 'hard saying', just like pluck out your eyes, I am the vine, or cut off your foot, or I am the door, or unless your righteousness surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

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These were religious folks, zealous of the Law. Neither cannibalism or drinking blood would ever be considered. If they were so offended, why didn't they leave after this hard saying? Instead, there was something coming that would be far more offensive.

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There is contrast here between physical food (manna) and spiritual food (faith in Jesus - the Word made flesh - John 1). Eating bread and wine does nothing for your spirit or mind - the ones that ate the manna all died. Jesus obeyed God's Word. He only spoke God's Word. His very life was based precisely on doing God's Will, which is His Word. For Believers, the Word saves and builds faith (Romans 10:17, Galatians 3:5, 1 Thessalonians 2:13), the Word renews your mind (Romans 12:2, Ephesians 5:25-27, Colossians 3:10, 2 Timothy 3:15-18).

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John 6:61-66 (KJV) 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

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Verse 63 makes it clear that Jesus is not referring to physical eating or drinking. He is talking about faith in him, the Living Word. And look at v.65, Jesus is repeating the same thing from v.43-44 that originally set the religious folks off. And it was from THAT time they they began to leave.

John 6:67-71 (KJV) 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

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Then Jesus turns to his disciples - did they have ears to hear? And look at Peter's response, he doesn't even mention eating flesh or drinking blood, apparently Peter understood the expression and the Revelation found in Jesus' words - why can't the religious today? When responding to the question if they would depart, Peter says, "You have the words of eternal life." --- THE WORD - faith is in God's Word! Its so simple a child can understand.

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Why weren't the rest scandalized by the use of such figurative language? They had ears to hear, and a love for God. They could receive some Truth. They weren't offended by Jesus' claims to be from Heaven, or that God was his Father. This was early in the ministry, so the disciples had no knowledge of the coming Last Supper, and cannibalism and drinking blood were contrary to the Law. They only had their knowledge of God's Word from the OT, Revelation from God, and what Jesus had taught until that time.

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Why do you suppose that the Communion account, is not included in John's Gospel?

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John, looking back, would have commented further if this event were related to the Last Supper, but he did not. His Gospel was written well after Pauls' revelation to the Church was in circulation, some say as late as the 90s AD. This was the last Gospel written, and by far the most powerful of the four IMHO. John also gives the most comprehensive account of the last words of Jesus during the same time as the Last Supper, filling 4 chapters with a powerful revelation of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father, as well as their relationship with Believers. And yet not a peep about eating flesh and drinking blood in those 4 chapters.

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I don't know the answer, but I find it a very interesting omission. Had the Holy Spirit wanted the account included, it certainly would have been.

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From an early age I was curious about the end. And I have always had the sense that the events would take place in my lifetime. And before I had ever heard of Darby, or any end time theories, I saw clearly in Scripture Jesus coming for His Body before Jacob's Trouble. I was thankful for that Revelation, because quite frankly, the events of the Tribulation are frightening.

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I had preachers and professors attempt to talk and reason me out that belief, trying their best to force the Body of Christ into a time meant for Israel and the unbelieving nations. But their arguments simply made my position stronger.

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I say all that just as some background. I too believe that BELIEVERS, those expecting Jesus, will know the time and the season. Some may know the exact day. Why do I say that?

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Then the group of prophets from Jericho came to Elisha and asked him, “Did you know that the LORD is going to take your master away from you today?” “Of course I know,” Elisha answered. “But be quiet about it.” 2 Kings 2:5 NLT

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All the prophets knew the very day Elijah was to be translated. And that was under the Old Covenant.

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Now why would God want people to know that He's coming for them? I think part of the answer is found in Timothy.

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3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 BSB

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There may be one final push, a last chance to pray, reach out to family, friends, strangers asking them to choose LIFE! Some have prophesied a great outpouring of spiritual gifts as part of this final push to save as many possible before the end of the Age of Grace. The Body of Christ will not sneak out defeated. It will be a triumphant departure of many folks that most would not expect. Again, don't look at this with religious eyes. See it through the eyes of Christ. Hell was not made for humans. And He knows everyone's heart - what they truly believe. If your choice is Hell, He will honor your decision all the way there, all the time pleading with you to choose Him, to choose LIFE!

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The Tribulation will not be fun. It will be horrific. Some will repent. But many others will grow bitter, rebellious, and angry at God. Its far better to be with Jesus, than against him.

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One final passage..
5 Because of faith Enoch was caught up and transferred to heaven, so that he did not have a glimpse of death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For even before he was taken to heaven, he received testimony [still on record] that he had pleased and been satisfactory to God. [Gen. 5:21-24.] 6 But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out]. Hebrews 11:5-6 AMP

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These two verses have always made me curious. A discussion about someone else who was translated - Enoch. Note the faith connection. A BELIEVER would obviously please the Father. But would the religious person?

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A couple of related posts if you are interested:

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For Part 1 On The End Times – Its The End Of The World As We Know It

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Part 2 – I Would Not Have You To Be Ignorant, Brethren

Another good one. Thanks for the assist.

This is the 3rd post from this protestia group that I have read and each one seems typical of heresy hunters. Taking things out of context and attacking ministries for sometimes trivial items.

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I looked carefully at the Facebook link, and it appears clearly to me his line on the Book of mormon was a joke. I seriously don't understand why Christians are so eager to attack The Chosen. Noah and Ridley's Scott's Exodus did not get attacked like this and they were horrible distortions from the truth.

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The Chosen has never claimed to be a Scripture by Scripture retelling. But it has been far better than many films through the years on Jesus. If you want by the book, try Gospel of John - but even that will have moments that frustrate you, as nobody can do justice to what Jesus did on Earth.

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Chosen is entertainment first, and an outreach to those not familiar with the Biblical story. There have been a few moments I cringed, and a few more that made me think. I wrote about the scene with the woman at the well that made me go back and study the story more carefully. And God revealed some things I never noticed before.

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I'll shut up now. But let's try and be at peace with others instead of tearing them down. As Believers, we should have far more in common than differences. And judge the source as well. There are people that LOVE to sow division. Don't let them succeed. If you dislike the Chosen, that's fine. Nobody is going to grab you, torture you and throw you in the fire - those days are hopefully behind us.

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I'm rooting for folks like Angel Studios, Pure Flix and GFA to not only survive, but thrive. We need quality entertainment, Christian, and even secular that is not obviously anti-Christian, as alternatives to the crap that's out there. If you don't like it, that's fine. But they are trying, and for that reason I will be supportive.

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16 Speaking of this as he does in all of his letters. There are some things in those [epistles of Paul] that are difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist and misconstrue to their own utter destruction, just as [they distort and misinterpret] the rest of the Scriptures. 2 Pe 3:16 AMP

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Even the Apostles had disagreements. Some had more Revelation than others. Some were more legalistic than others. But somehow, we are to be at peace with each other.

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40 And I implored Your disciples to drive it out, but they could not.
41 Jesus answered, O [faithless ones] unbelieving and without trust in God, a perverse (wayward, crooked and warped) generation! Until when and how long am I to be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here [to Me].
42 And even while he was coming, the demon threw him down and [completely] convulsed him. But Jesus censured and severely rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the child and restored him to his father.
43 And all were astounded at the evidence of God’s mighty power and His majesty and magnificence. But [while] they were all marveling at everything Jesus was doing, He said to His disciples,
44 Let these words sink into your ears: the Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men [whose conduct is opposed to God].
45 However, they did not comprehend this saying; and it was kept hidden from them, so that they should not grasp it and understand, and they were afraid to ask Him about the statement.
46 But a controversy arose among them as to which of them might be the greatest [surpassing the others in excellence, worth, and authority].
47 But Jesus, as He perceived the thoughts of their hearts, took a little child and put him at His side
48 And told them, Whoever receives and accepts and welcomes this child in My name and for My sake receives and accepts and welcomes Me; and whoever so receives Me so also receives Him Who sent Me. For he who is least and lowliest among you all—he is [the one who is truly] great.
49 John said, Master, we saw a man driving out demons in Your name and we commanded him to stop it, for he does not follow along with us.
50 But Jesus told him, Do not forbid [such people]; for whoever is not against you is for you.
Lk 9:40–50 AMP

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Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling, for you have been called by God.
2 Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love.
3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.
4 For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future.
5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, in all, and living through all.
Eph 4:1–6 NLT

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You know its interesting that Saul thought he was doing God's work by rounding up and killing followers of Jesus. He was a Pharisee that studied under Gamaliel, and few understood Scripture more than he. And yet there he was on the way to Damascus when he MET JESUS. And what did Jesus say?

“Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?”
Ac 9:4 NLT

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Jesus took the persecution of HIS BODY PERSONALLY. And His Body is made up of MANY parts, placed where it pleases the Father. We are not bricks - all identical. Nor are we fashioned stones to be similar. We are more like stones, a unique creation, given the Grace by God to do the things He has planned for us. And you know, those jobs will likely vary quite a bit from person to person. Remember that when you are TEMPTED to attack another. Pray about it first. Ask God if you've been called to be a heresy hunter.

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See also Matt 18, Rom 16:17-20, 1 Cor 5 & 6, Gal 6, 1 Tim 3 - 6, Titus 3

The ones that aren't moving are calling themselves Reconciling Ministries Network. Here is the typical web explanation - name of church removed.

We the community of XXXXXX United Methodist Church, as a reconciling church that shares God through love and service, extend a special welcome to all people. We recognize we are called to be one body with many members.

We acknowledge throughout the church’s history there has been discrimination and exclusivity. We are a loving church that strives to be different. We value progressive theological teaching, discourse and compelling worship.

We believe every person has worth as a unique creation made in the image of God. We declare ourselves to be open, loving, and affirming to each and every person regardless of race, culture, age, gender, gender-identity, marital status, sexual orientation, ability or socioeconomic status.

Because God’s love in Jesus Christ has broken down the walls that divide us, we seek to love in a way that unites us.

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My two sisters and I were raised in the UMC, graduated from SMU, as well as our mother and most of the extended family. Our grandfather was a circuit rider - just so you know the roots go deep. Both my middle sister and me left the UMC some time ago. The oldest is employed by the church and is a long time member of the congregation. She is also quite progressive as a former public school teacher.

The few discussions have been difficult, as her heart is right - we were all spiritually dead once. The challenge I see is there is little effort to save folks. It appears instead that sin is being normalized, and "reconciling" religion is just making people comfortable in their sins.

Somewhere between the two positions is God's Perfect Way. He ate with sinners, he reached out to those on the margins, but always looking to transform lives - to go and sin no more. That is not possible without being made alive in Christ. Someone who has imagined themselves gay all their life can't change without being spiritually reborn.

Her church was already on the ropes from Covid - never growing back to pre-pandemic attendance. They lost another 3rd by the split. Now, they have a part-time pastor and its uncertain whether they fold, merge with another, or build back.

As you might tell, this does not make me happy. However, I am confident God is in control. And SOMETHING GOOD will come from all of this. Maybe God can work through some of these churches and transform these lost lives back to His Perfect Will.

Just when folks are finally realizing that meat is very healthy and to avoid processed/high carb diets, the world wants to force us to consume fake meat?

I grew up eating lots of meat - multiple uncles had dairy farms and we kept the extra freezer packed full of meat. I was healthy and in great shape. It took a few decades, but that high carb/junk food diet caught up with me as I stopped playing football, basketball, racquetball all the time. Instead, I ate out or snacked most of the time.

Retail is pushing that crap hard, calling it plant-based, as if that makes it healthier than the real thing. And it often costs more and tastes horrible.

I will stick with real meat. Spam is about as close as I will ever get to the fake stuff - and that is saved for emergencies.

Dylan was just one symptom of a sick brand. Transgender was being shoved at us from every direction. Men competing with women, being selected as "woman" of the year, working in the administration. What finally got me interested was the interview with the marketing exec. That was quite eye opening as far as her attitude towards their core customers - and I no longer drink beer!

When her video went viral, that was when the boycott really took off. And then AB kept digging the hole deeper with their non-apologies, the ridiculous horsy ad, and other statements that never address why people are upset.

Bud Light became the red line for transgender ideology. People will not drink it, and likely never will again.

They just released another letter that was just as generic as the rest. They are using the same generic tag line and planning on more advertising and financially supporting their distribution chain. There is STILL no apology, no "fruit of repentance", no promise to stay out of the culture wars - why would someone go back to Bud?

The only way I see the brand survive is drop the price down to near nothing - be the "generic" beer I bought for $2.98 a case in college when we were broke. Nobody is paying full price when there are plenty of options that don't hate you, or insult your values.

You seemingly are agreeing with me at times, so maybe its just semantics? You quoted Galatians 6:15-16, so let's start there.

13 For even the circumcised [Jews] themselves do not [really] keep the Law, but they want to have you circumcised in order that they may glory in your flesh (your subjection to external rites).
14 But far be it from me to glory [in anything or anyone] except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) through Whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world!
15 For neither is circumcision [now] of any importance, nor uncircumcision, but [only] a new creation [the result of a new birth and a new nature in Christ Jesus, the Messiah].
16 Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule [who discipline themselves and regulate their lives by this principle], even upon the [true] Israel of God! [Ps. 125:5.] Galatians 6:13-16 AMP

I expanded the passage for clarity. If there is a NEW creature, there was an old, correct? Just keep that in the back of your mind. In the Body of Christ, the works of the Law do not matter. It is by Grace through faith we are Saved, or made alive in Christ! (Ephesians 2:1-9)
Paul is addressing Gentiles, finally fully embracing his calling.

11 Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands.
12 [Remember] that you were at that time separated (living apart) from Christ [excluded from all part in Him], utterly estranged and outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the [Messianic] promise [with no knowledge of or right in God’s agreements, His covenants]. And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God.
13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were [so] far away, through (by, in) the blood of Christ have been brought near.
14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,
15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.
16 And [He designed] to reconcile to God both [Jew and Gentile, united] in a single body by means of His cross, thereby killing the mutual enmity and bringing the feud to an end.
17 And He came and preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off and [peace] to those who were near. [Isa. 57:19.]
18 For it is through Him that we both [whether far off or near] now have an introduction (access) by one [Holy] Spirit to the Father [so that we are able to approach Him].
19 Therefore you are no longer outsiders (exiles, migrants, and aliens, excluded from the rights of citizens), but you now share citizenship with the saints (God’s own people, consecrated and set apart for Himself); and you belong to God’s [own] household.
Ephesians 2:11–19 AMP (The whole chapter (Eph 2) is germane to this discussion)

Is it not clear that this is a NEW Body, where the old ways are set aside? And those who reject Jesus, whether Jews or Gentiles, are not parts of the Body? Is any Christian required to get circumcised? Do you carry a lamb to Temple to sacrifice? Is there a priesthood descended from Aaron? Absolutely not. Those ordinances were for the Jews alone. Why?
There are roughly 16 million Jews who REJECT Jesus as the Messiah, many are openly hostile to even the suggestion. But there are 350k Messianic Jews, who believe in Jesus as the Messiah, although some cling to the Jewish religious traditions, and do not fully enjoy the LIBERTY we have IN CHRIST.

BEFORE JESUS, there were two identified groups on the planet - Israel (Jews) and Nations (Gentiles, Greeks). Paul introduces a 3rd Group - They are taught the Word individually, as opposed to as a group. And most importantly:

28 There is [now no distinction] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ [are in Him Who is Abraham’s Seed], then you are Abraham’s offspring and [spiritual] heirs according to promise.
Galatians 3:28-29 AMP

Who is Paul describing? Why are we Abraham's seed (not physical descendants, but spiritual). Because his righteousness came by faith, not the Law (actually BEFORE THE LAW). Gen 15:6, Rom 4, Galatians 3:6-9, Hebrews 11:8-10, 17-19.

The Church, I prefer Body of Christ or Believers to avoid the very confusion we are discussing is a NEW BODY, made up of Believers, individuals from both groups who through Faith in Jesus, are made alive in Christ. Paul defines the three groups now on Earth.
32 Do not let yourselves be [hindrances by giving] an offense to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God [do not lead others into sin by your mode of life]; 1 Corinthians 10:32 AMP

If Paul discerns THREE groups on Earth, shouldn't BELIEVERS?

You dismiss dispensationalism, but equate any religious writing over the last 1500 years to be equal or better than Scripture! If Kermit the Hermit gives an opinion in the 4th century, who cares if he is wrong? What does the Word say? And if one can't CLEARLY discern divisions in God's Word, the Bible will be hopelessly confusing. Even Paul claims people were dismissing his Revelation while he was still alive. Who were the primary culprits - Judaizers, pagans, and Rome. And you can see that clearly in the ECF writing, which often teach a Gospel quite different than Paul.

This is from Bullinger. There are others out there, but this is adequate for our purposes.

● 1st. The Edenic state ended in the expulsion from Eden.
● 2nd. The Period without Law ended with the Flood and the Judgment on Babel.
● 3rd. The Period under Law ended in the Rejection of Israel.
● 4th. The Dispensation of Grace will end in the Rapture of the Church, and "the Day of the Lord."
● 5th. The Dispensation of Judgment will end in the Destruction of Anti-Christ.
● 6th. The Millennium will end in the Destruction of Satan, and the Judgment of the Great White throne.
● 7th. Will have "no end."
How anyone with the slightest Biblical understanding can dispute the above is beyond me. You may not understand it. And that is OK. Just recognize that within each ADMINISTRATION - if you prefer, God interacted differently with people. For proof, just compare the OT Jewish person's religious activities to your own. Is there not a CLEAR difference. Something changed, in this case, God had a HIDDEN plan from before the Foundation of the Earth, to build a Body with Jesus as the Head. The offer to Israel to receive their King was there for almost 40 years, but their leadership rejected their King, so the time of the Gentiles continued, Jerusalem was trodden down, Temple destroyed and the Jewish people scattered to the world. They were set aside for a time. And God would now work with individuals, not by the Law, but by Grace. Its so perfect in its design. He temporarily lost His servants, but gained children!

25 Lest you be self-opinionated (wise in your own conceits), I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren: a hardening (insensibility) has [temporarily] befallen a part of Israel [to last] until the full number of the ingathering of the Gentiles has come in,
26 And so all Israel will be saved. As it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob. [Isa. 59:20, 21.]
27 And this will be My covenant (My agreement) with them when I shall take away their sins. [Isa. 27:9; Jer. 31:33.]
28 From the point of view of the Gospel (good news), they [the Jews, at present] are enemies [of God], which is for your advantage and benefit. But from the point of view of God’s choice (of election, of divine selection), they are still the beloved (dear to Him) for the sake of their forefathers.
29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]
30 Just as you were once disobedient and rebellious toward God but now have obtained [His] mercy, through their disobedience,
31 So they also now are being disobedient [when you are receiving mercy], that they in turn may one day, through the mercy you are enjoying, also receive mercy [that they may share the mercy which has been shown to you—through you as messengers of the Gospel to them].
Romans 11:25-31 AMP

Read that passage carefully. We are NOT one big happy family, or a continuation of Judaism. Believers are the BODY of Christ made up of individuals who ONCE were considered Jews and Gentiles, but NOW ONE IN CHRIST. Israel's hope is all the unfulfilled promises of the OT. Our hope is to be with Jesus when He appears. (Colossians 3)

I am running out of time, and I wanted to share a bit more on rightly dividing the Word. Because again, if you attempt to apply what belongs to Israel under the Law to the Body of Christ - or vice versa, you end up in the religious ditch.

I quote Bullinger once more to save time.

To those who lived under the Law it could rightly and truly be said: "It shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us" (Deut 6:25). But to those who live in this present Dispensation of grace, it is as truly declared, "By the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" (Rom 3:20; see also Gal 2:16, 3:11, &c.). But this is the very opposite of Deuteronomy 6:25! What then are we to say, or to do? Which of these two statements is true? and which is false?

The answer is, that neither is false. But both are true if we rightly divide the Word of truth as to its Dispensational truth and teaching.

And because folks fail to rightly divide the Word, and do not understand its dispensational nature, they fail to understand what belongs to them. Note these ECF quotes. They are completely at odds with Paul's Revelation and teaching for Believers. Multiply that times multiple centuries of confused theologians and you have a hot mess. Stick to the Word - but rightly divide it!

2 If thou art able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect; but if thou art not able, what thou art able, that do.The Didache: The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles through the Twelve Apostles. 6:2

1 But as for your fasts, let them not be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week, but do ye fast on the fourth and sixth days.
2 Neither pray ye as the hypocrites, but as the Lord hath commanded in his gospel so pray ye: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done as in heaven so on earth. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debt, as we also forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil: for thine is the power, and the glory, for ever.
3 Thrice a day pray ye in this fashion. The Didache: The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles through the Twelve Apostles. 8:1-3

3 Thou shalt, therefore, take the first-fruits of every produce of the wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and sheep, and shalt give it to the prophets, for they are your chief priests;The Didache: The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles through the Twelve Apostles. 13:3

This will be my last post on this thread. Though I enjoy this, I am falling behind on some critical work. I've been studying the Word for 50 years. I fought this battle in college with professors and fellow students. I KNOW in whom I believe. There is not a theologian alive that will change what I know in my spirit. I admire your zeal. Fight for what you believe, as do I. I do examine other opinions cause it often makes me sharpen and defend what I know.

I don't believe in religion. Its caused my family much pain, and has been utterly useless in my life. I love God, because He loves me, and never fails to come through when I need HIM - and sometimes He just surprises me with His favor. I love His Word. For those with ears to hear, it speaks TRUTH. And its so easy a child can understand. (Psalm 119:130)

May God Richly Bless You!

Thank you for clearly answering the question. I will peruse your posts later and respond as necessary.

Since you once again dodged my very simple questions. How about this?

IF the papacy is the "Little Horn/Antichrist" as you repeat continually, do you think that THE ANTICHRIST is on Earth NOW? Please answer YES or NO!

If you answered NO to the Little Horn question, what does that matter to a Believer, part of the Body of Christ? I have NOTHING to do with religion. How does that change what was promised the Body of Christ? I can see how Catholics might be in trouble, if they have more faith in their denomination than God's Word. But that is true for everyone who has NOT made Jesus their Lord, regardless of religious background. If you answered yes, you are mistaken. We are NOT in THE TRIBULATION.

How can faith in God's Word EVER be deception? Especially when the Holy Spirit confirms it in your heart?

There is tribulation in the world because of the Word. Satan attempts to immediately steal it, and if unsuccessful make it confusing, especially when it comes to End Times. Matthew 13, Mark 4. But that is NOT THE TRIBULATION. Something must be taken out of the way BEFORE the antichrist has free reign on Earth. What could possibly be so powerful that it restrained satan's efforts on Earth? The obvious answer is the Body of Christ, who acts with authority to limit satan's work. With the Body gone, God must appoint 144,000 Jewish evangelists for those who remain - Israel and the Nations. Why? Christians are gone!

What the Little Horn or papacy does is largely irrelevant. God has spoken. His Word will be done. Satan will think he is in charge, but that is not THE TRUTH. But those 7 years will be a time of testing, and refinement. Israel will become the nation of kings and priests and be a light to the nations as promised. It is a time of Jacob's Trouble. The Body of Christ will not be present on Earth. For what possible purpose would we play, when Israel is the CLEAR focus. We are no longer under condemnation. Believers HAVE been judged. We are IN CHRIST. Appearing with Him in Glory!

And if somehow, Believers miss it, and the rapture occurs mid or late trib, we will still appear with Jesus. As Colossians clearly says.

IF THEN you have been raised with Christ [to a new life, thus sharing His resurrection from the dead], aim at and seek the [rich, eternal treasures] that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. [Ps. 110:1.]
2 And set your minds and keep them set on what is above (the higher things), not on the things that are on the earth.
3 For [as far as this world is concerned] you have died, and your [new, real] life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, Who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in [the splendor of His] glory.
Colossians 3:1-4 AMP

That is GOOD NEWS - not a warning. Unless you have NOT been raised with Jesus.

EVEN if those who believed God was coming for His Body - as promised, yet got the date or timing wrong, that does not change who I am IN CHRIST. The Holy Spirit will lead you to TRUTH, not deception. So the time comes, tribulation starts, and the HS reveals: hey guys, its not at the beginning, but mid-trib. Nothing changes for the BELIEVER except the departure date. Jesus is still My Lord. I am still made alive, sitting in Heavenly Places IN Christ Jesus, and COMPLETE IN CHRIST!

Satan IS NOT A GENIUS. READ THE WORD. He is spiritually DEAD. He is a FALLEN ANGEL and the Father of LIES. He is UNDER OUR FEET, a snake in the grass trying to survive until his final judgment. He is LIKE a roaring lion, a Believer can rebuke him as easily as Jesus did when He walked on the Earth. We worship a VERY BIG GOD, and He is opposed by a tiny, rebellious, prideful devil. once Jesus whipped him so bad he left for a season! He couldn't touch Jesus, there was no sin in Him and He only spoke the Words of His Father. (Luke 4, 10:17-20, John 8:42-47, 12:49, 14:30) Believers can resist him and he WILL flee! (Ephesians 4:21-30, 6:10-12, 2 Timothy 4:17-18, Hebrews 2:14-18, James 4:5-10)

4 And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the [Holy] Spirit and power [a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring in the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus persuading them],
5 So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God.
6 Yet when we are among the full-grown (spiritually mature Christians who are ripe in understanding), we do impart a [higher] wisdom (the knowledge of the divine plan previously hidden); but it is indeed not a wisdom of this present age or of this world nor of the leaders and rulers of this age, who are being brought to nothing and are doomed to pass away.
7 But rather what we are setting forth is a wisdom of God once hidden [from the human understanding] and now revealed to us by God—[that wisdom] which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification [to lift us into the glory of His presence].
8 None of the rulers of this age or world perceived and recognized and understood this, for if they had, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 2:4-8 AMP

You need to truly appreciate what you have in Christ, and GREATLY diminish ANY fear of satan and his minions. Write the name of JESUS boldly, and satans in lowercase - that's from the Lord!

7 Casting the whole of your care [all your anxieties, all your worries, all your concerns, once and for all] on Him, for He cares for you affectionately and cares about you watchfully. [Ps. 55:22.]
8 Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour.
9 Withstand him; be firm in faith [against his onset—rooted, established, strong, immovable, and determined], knowing that the same (identical) sufferings are appointed to your brotherhood (the whole body of Christians) throughout the world.
1 Peter 5:7–9 AMP

I looked at Daniel 7 again to try and see something, anything relevant to the Body of Christ, but there is NOTHING There. The Revelation of the Body was HIDDEN IN GOD, and not revealed until given to Paul to preach. Daniel 7 is talking about not saints in the NT sense, but the Holy Ones of Israel. This matches quite nicely with most End Times prophecies found in the OT, with Israel in the Tribulation. But you really have to contort yourself, and twist Scripture into a monster pretzel to make the BOC fit into the Tribulation. It just does not belong - believe me I tried. I almost failed a NT course because I could not in my spirit agree with what was being taught. Several of my classmates had the same challenge. We were all Believers, and with each question we asked, the more confusing the answer. But honestly its not that hard if you simply BELIEVE God's Word, and let the Holy Spirit confirm it. Then, as you read the prophecies, and read Revelation it makes perfect sense, because its NOT ABOUT THE BODY OF CHRIST. The, Revelation of Jesus Christ, is for folks who DO NOT KNOW JESUS. It was written to SERVANTS, not children of God, the Body of Christ, or those sitting in Heavenly Places in Christ. It really is SO EASY it takes a theologian to misunderstand. But to someone with ears to hear, the Word is SIMPLE. Psalm 119:130.

His answer is ok. Here is my suggestion.

Teach a child to appreciate their value. They can be the unique and precious individual made by God, or a poor imitation of something else. God makes no mistakes, and they are perfect as is, and part of a much greater perfect plan. God's perfect will is your Happy place.

One of my favorite stories to make this point, was when Israel was told to build an altar, they were instructed to use stones, not bricks. And the stones were not to be fashioned by man. So each one would be a unique creation of God. I see a parallel for mankind. Every person has a perfect plan laid out for their life. They are uniquely prepared, given the Grace necessary to fill that role. It is vital to the Body of Christ that they fill that role. And when they find their place, embrace the plan and purpose God has for their lives, their life will be filled with joy, excitement, peace, and contentment.

The world (and god of this world) tells them that this is not the case. That is why parents must be vigilant, guard who has access to your children, monitor what they are teaching/sharing, and same goes for TV/music/Internet. Kids are being told its "cool" to be different - WHEN THEY ALREADY ARE UNIQUE!

I actually made a short video adaptation from my Boris Kitty series called Duck Dreams. Boris dreams of being a duck, and God explains why this might not be a good idea. This was prompted by this very issue. Hope you enjoy.

Boris Kitty In Duck Dreams

Like I said, don't place your faith in ANY men, even religious men. My faith rests completely on God's Word. And I am quite comfortable, TRULY at peace with God, with what I believe. Do you have peace with what you believe. It sure doesn't sound that way.

So forget what everyone else says and keep it simple.

Do you think we are in THE Tribulation, JACOB's TROUBLE, NOW?

If not, where are we in God's prophetic timeline? Before tribulation, in Tribulation, post tribulation, millennial Kingdom?

Does God Love You? Are you made alive IN CHRIST and seated in Heavenly places IN Christ?

If so, why would you need to Tribulate, IF you already are free from condemnation, complete in Christ, and already have a Revelation of Jesus Christ?

Forget all the mumbo jumbo you've read about Rome. All the "theories and traditions" of fallen men. Just focus on where YOU are and where YOU will be. Rome will get sorted in due time.

If you accuse me of holding "satanic beliefs" or even mention Jesuits, Scottish lasses, or that Darby "stole" the idea - which was refuted quite well in the links I provided, we are done. So focus on the questions above, and let's see if we can establish a very small piece of common ground.

Can either of you give me a list of all the Protestant Reformers that taught the PTR/Futurism? You won’t find any, because the theory came from the counter reformation of the Catholic Church (Jesuit division). It is antibiblical and satanic, as are the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the Antichrist power/Little Horn. The Reformers all saw it. Congratulations on being successfully counter reformed.

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Faith comes from Hearing the Word. And the Holy Spirit leads you to Truth. And THE TRUTH makes you free. When you rely on men, even religious men, you often land in the ditch. With that said...

All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins.
From Pseudo-Ephraem, On the Last Times - Pseudo-Ephraem claims that his sermon was written by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73)
The Rapture in Pseudo-Ephraem

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In 1995 Frank Marotta and John Bray brought to light the pretribulation rapture teaching of Morgan Edwards, a Baptist theologian of the 1700’s and founder of Brown University. In a treatise entitled Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties written between 1742 and 1744, Edwards taught that three and a half years before the Antichrist will kill the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the Son of Man will appear in the clouds to raise the dead, change the living, and catch them up to Himself.

It has all the elements of the rapture story, only the length of the Tribulation is different.
This author also mentions Brother Dolcino of the 14th century.
A Rapture Citation in the Fourteenth Century

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John Walvoord’s assessment is likely close to the truth: any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald. Darby’s views undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving’s pre-Pentecostal group.

Myths of the Origin of the Rapture

It is NOT from deceptive Jesuits, or from the imagination of a Scottish lass. Its in God's Word, clearly visible when you rightly divide the Word, understanding the clear differences between Israel, and the Body of Christ. If it was never mentioned until Darby, I would be fine, because I see it CLEARLY in the Word. And its no surprise that eschatology was not high on the agenda for religious scholars - a very small number - for 1800 years until the modern era. And any idea that deviated from what Rome declared, often ended in a fiery display of religious displeasure. Once printing was available, better translations in the original languages were accessible, and folks had more freedom to read and meditate on the Word, suddenly there is an explosion of people who see the same - or very close to the same things.

I also believe that a basic understanding of dispensationalism is quite helpful in understanding the Bible. These ideas have been percolating some time going back to its primitive roots around the 2nd century. Wikipedia actually has a decent summary of this.

Dispensationalism

A Short History of Dispensationalism