Free Republic

Sometimes "brevity" isn't the be all and end all it's cracked up to be.

I do believe in giving full credit where and when credit is due.

Together, our posts gave the full picture, which is a good thing!

No, the Masons has NEVER been "largely a mutual aid society". They were ALWAYS a fraternal, charitable society.

Both the Masons and Shriners ( not all Masons are Shriners, but ALL Shriners must be Masons first ) have always run FREE hospitals, with Lodges donating all manner of very expensive medical equipment ( until the Polio vaccine, many of NYC hospitals, of ALL kinds, got most of their iron lungs, as donations, from Masons ), childrens' camps, and help, through scholarships, with going to college.

OTOH, mutual aid societies,such as THE PETOFI and THE YOUNG PETOFI SOCIETY ( an Hungarian mutual aid AND social society ), which IS what this article is talking about.

Such societies would have not only dues, but in the case of the Petofi Society, raised money through having balls, picnics, and other such spiffy social gatherings. They provided death benefits to widows and children, unemployment benefits to those who lost their jobs, bought out large sections of graveyards, so as to offer the membership and their families cheaper fees for grave sites, donate to several hospitals, so that their members had better rooms for less of a fee to no fee, and their ladies' auxilliaries would bring Thanksgiving and Christmas baskets to the poor, as well as teaching new immigrants what they needed to know to make it in America.

Even with the government taking on more and more of such "safety net" things, some of these societies lasted into the mid 1960s.

Yes, the truth can be subjective, but facts aren't malleable. The problem is, some people refuse to accept facts.

I always do what I can, to post facts as refutation.

I hope that you have a good rest of the weekend, as well.

Some people just refuse to see the truth and hang onto the very old, moldy lies. And when you consider the fact that it goes back hundreds of years now, been refuted and proved to be a pack of lies, it's amazing that some here still cling, tenaciously to those impugnations!

I truly hope that all of them/members of their immediate someday need the services of Shriners' hospitals! Maybe after an up close and personal experience, they'll have their eyes opened and a change of heart.

There's no help for the HOLIER THAN THOU lunatics, but when someone claims that Masons and Jews are behind all the evil in the world/are going to do thus and so/whatever other crazy thing........I jump in and post facts. It's what needs to be done.

You’re correct on all counts, but come on........when someone starts agreeing with stuff from THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION and THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, it’s time to step in and refute the crapola.

I’m not there, vis-a-vis turning a blind eye to all of Newt’s known perfidious actions and statements; both old and recent. OTOH, as the VEEP he would be good, though probably far better as Chief of Staff.

LOL.............I left out a whole LOT of old and present Masons who were/are both GOD fearing good men all and who greatly added much to civilization. And yes, then there are all of those who were/are Shriners,DeMolay, Eastern Stars, Rainbow Girls, and/or Job's Daughters. :-)

I too like classical music and old movies and old T.V.shows!

Hi old friend! :-)

Yes, you kinda missed it, as it began last night, but someone escalated it today, so I thought I'd call in a few old friends to have a laugh and join in the "fun".

LOL.........three good ones, in the same post! You're in fine fettle, even though that debate ( grilling more like, from someone who imagines himself to be a member of the Spanish Inquisition !) was a mess.

Newt always shines in these things; it's a pity that he doesn't live up to his calling, when he does have power, though.

So was Paul Revre, George Washington, Sir Winston Churchill, Laurel & Hardy, Irving Berlin, Gene Autry, Col. Edwin “BUZZ” Aldrin, Davey Crockette, George M.Cohan, Harry Houdini, Booker T. Washington, Lew Wallace ( he wrote Ben Hur,for starters ), John Philip Sousa and Roy Rogers; to name but a few good men who were/are Masons. :-)

This is part of the second unwanted FRmail letters this poster has written to me and now posted. It wasn't enough for him to debate me on this thread, oh no; he also had to write me two letters, berate me and impugn me, and show off his condescending, insulting handiwork in public.

And FWIW, he wrote to me, I did NOT "contact" him privately, first; though I do admit to replying, civilly, to his first letter.

We’ve got a “live one” here, who believes that Masons are “evil” and that Freemasonry is a religion.

Nobody cares one whit about your private notes with other posters and should you post anything you have written to me, or I to you, it will be cause to unleash the hounds upon you.

That happens to be one man's benighted opinion.

If you tell me which Christian sect you belong to, I'm certain that I would be able to come up with all kinds of things you would disagree with, that they had said and/or written.

Okay,let me put this all in perspective for you.

The Boy Scouts is a world wide secular organization.

It has its own "rites" and rituals.

They take boys of every race and religion; even those with NO religion, as it began as a way to train boys to be men,in a quasi military type of environment. This has changed somewhat, over the century plus it has been in existence, but I do hope that you're following the jist of this.

Now you're besmirching Methodists, Episcopalians, and GOD only knows who else? Anyone and everyone with whom you do not share 100% views on what is GODLY/Christian?

Then WHY are you here on this site, allowing yourself to be contaminated by hundreds, if not thousands of posters who don't share all of your views? And yes, there's a Presbyterian minister here, who is also a Mason!

The Masons are a secular, fraternal, and charitable organization.

The Knights of Columbus was formed to give Catholics a fraternal and charitable organization, in lieu of the Masons,because even though the church had forbidden the flock from being Masons, many were still keeping their membership/joining it. I'd give you the exact,factual history of these things; however, I doubt that you would read it, care, and I don't want to waste any more time nor bandwidth on you......you who not only post to me out in the open, but also feel the need to write me private letters about this topic,impugning me and Uriah Heapishly being arrogant and 'umble, all at the same time.

Wouldn't you be happier posting to FR's religion section?

And just WHO said that YOU aren't a "good" man?

Oh yes............that would be YOU; by implication and inference. You must have an extremely guilty conscience.

It's not a "spiritual system";no matter what you claim.

I didn't post any "fluff", but I DID post unassailable facts.

We get it...........you hate and fear the Masons and I do remember you from other ignorant, sophistic, puerile anti-Masonic posts in the past. But for you to believe THIS nonsensical MUSLIM drivel, is just mind boggling!

There is NOT,by-the-by, "almost solid small-o orthodox Christian unity in repudiating that spiritual system"! Yes, Roman Catholicism now forbids their membership from being Masons ( and started their own version;THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS, as a distraction/alternative ) after being talked into it. And it's a long, involved story, but if you want those facts, I will give them to you.

Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians aren't against the Masons. If you want proof of that,I'll supply it.

But YOU have done nothing but post unadulterated codswallop,so you haven't a leg to stand on!

You’re welcome! :-)

I hate to burst your bubble,but it was Orthodox Jews who came up with the Kabbalah stuff during the Middle Ages and Christian/Catholics did have esoteric dabblings at that time as well and later on.

Even today, many sects in Judaism, have their Rabbis learn about/study the Kabbalah.

European Alchemists were Christians and besides being scientists, of a sort, they were also delving into different pathways.

Jesus expelled "demons", which is something some might see as kinda "weird", today. Turning water into wine? Raising the dead? And you're claiming that the NT doesn't have esoteric stuff in it it ? What about nuns and lay people having "visions" ? Opus Dei anyone ?

Secret and/or fraternal/charitable societies have been around from time immemorial. That many have died out/are dieing out now, is mostly due to modern technology and the fact that face to face communication is on the wane. We "socialize" in private now....through the net, Blackberries, etc.!

Linking Masons and Jews ( not to mention bankers ) to terrible things, goes back to the French Revolution, when a crazy French aristo Roman Catholic Abbe,who had fled to England, wrote a terrible tract about how it was the Jews and Masons who fomented the French Revolution. That POS garbage was expanded upon, more than a century later, when the original THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION was written and made it's way to many different nations. It was this bilge that Hitler and Communists expanded and built on. And WHY Henry Ford, who was a Mason, but also a staunch anti-Semite put in the glove compartment of ALL of his cars,for a long time, until he was stopped, I do not understand.

What has ALWAYS scared those who have been "scared" of/hate Masons, is the fact that they accept ALL good men......no matter their race or religion, as long as they believe in GOD!

Freemasonry is NOT and never has been a "religion" !

I'm actually not "working against"anyone, except Romney.

My reply re "working against" was a "joke".*

* Now, evidently they accepted excuse for anything and everything. :-)

Oh really?

How come you are SO obsessed with homosexuals?

Fess up..........you have a problem. Come on, admit it; you'll feel better and you might even come to the conclusion that having a good vocabulary isn't just for "FAGGOTS".

Was Bill Buckley an homosexual?

How about Thomas Sowell?

Is Newt a "FAGGOT"?

That’s because he’s yet to actually get into the campaign!

No, it wasn't a "joke" at all and neither was it "funny"!

You obviously have an extremely limited vocabulary, and called what a wrote,written in a "FAGGOTY LANGUAGE".

Why are you obsessed with homosexuals?

Do you have a problem, that you are trying to hide?

Are you proud of your abject lack of language skills?

And you can stalk me ( which you have done on this thread ) till the cows come home, you will be the one who suffers; not I.

I'd tell you to "grow up", but you've far too much of that to do, to be able to comply. Is that plain enough, or is the vocabulary I have just used still too "FAGGOTY" for you to comprehend?

You're reading something into my posts, just as you are reading things into Cain and his campaign.

I'm not "upset" over this thing.

I am "upset" at people who refuse to allow others to see valid flaws in in their chosen candidate and love,love LOVE anything he says or does, even when there is a problem.

Okay, this is just a dry run then? Doodlings to figure something out? Then WHY make it public ?

Sadly,I too don't think that there is an "unRomney",either.

As you well know, I will NEVER vote for Romney, no matter who his VEEP is, should he win the nomination.

This really was the GOPs election to lose and I'm sick over that, considering our field.

I keep watching the debates, reading everything I can about all of those in our field, and nobody is doing well. It's early days and I keep hoping against hope that one of them, just ONE, will rise to the occasion.

You left out the part that you don’t have a good grasp of the English language and find simple English words “FAGGOTY”.

I didn't shake my head as I typed and am pretty sure that I don't usually do so when I talk.

I'm always surprised to see it done, now, after having watched the body language experts talk about it. Frankly, I don't know anyone, in real life whom I talk with, face to face,who does do that.

It is a "bad" thing, for many reasons.

First of all, should Cain get the nomination, he has very little experience running a campaign and what little he has, is bad.

Being an "outsider" is all well and good...........except that means that he has no idea who to pick for a variety of positions;first for his campaign and secondly, should he become president, for all of the positions he will have to fill.

He is a business man. He has never had to deal with anything even remotely like Congress;let alone foreign dignitaries, heads of state, lobbyists, etc.!

Advisers to any and every politician are important. So HOW and WHOM does he chose and why?

From what he has said during the debates, we know that he doesn't like Perry. He supported Romney in the last go round. Does he like Newt? Probably and he also probably knows him better than the others.

Cain has NO record at all. So it's just his words now and since he has backtracked on some things, thus far, we can't just take him at his word, since there have been some flip flops, talking first and then changing some things later, and so on.

Is he ready to go up against Obama and the full thrust of the MSM/DEM machine? NO WAY and sadly, he still hasn't shown me that he has done any work to correct that problem.

He is trying to start at the top, which in times past, was frowned upon and ridiculed.

And before you try to throw Washington, Jackson, and/or Ike at me, those generals had dealings with Congress ( The Continental Congress for Washington ) prior to running for president.

There's more, but these really are things to mull over.

Both the Dems and the GOPers did everything in their power to get Ike to not only run for president, but to do so for their party. Once Ike decided to go it as a GOPer, the full force of the party and pols stepped in to help him.Do you honestly believe that the GOP will do that for Cain and/or that he'll accept the help?

I've read that he likes to do it all on his own. Perhaps that's true, perhaps it isn't; I don't know and I bet that nobody else here does either.

It has NOTHING at all with being “language stunted”, what ever that's supposed to mean, as it's something people unconsciously pick upon.

Me thinks that it is only polite to add my nic, whilst talking about me. There ARE rules here. :-)

Why then do you care SO much what I post to others, that you feel compelled to reply to something not directed to you?

Is this what you meant, stalker, by what you threatened to do? If so, it's not going to help you any.

Calling in the Mods now, are you?

You have a strange idea about breaking the rules here and though I didn't report your previous ones, I'll take this now to the highest source.

You have personally attacked me, for no reason, threatened to stalk me, and when I used a perfectly good word, called it "FAGGOTY LANGUAGE", with the implicit implication that I am an homosexual, just because you are unfamiliar with the word codswallop.

You have yet to make a valid or substansive point, vis-a-vis the topic of this thread, hijacking it for your own personal agenda.

Thanks for the link.

I know that Obama used FB and TWITTER, etc. last time around; however, that was in conjunction with a lot of other stuff.

How this will work "for" Cain, I don't know. I am not any kind of "expert" in this matter and don't claim to be one.

I hate, loathe, and abominate Romney!

Obviously you either can't read, or have an abject lack of skill, when it comes to reading comprehension.

I was a Palin supporter. She decided to not run. Now, I am looking for someone to vote for and nobody is given me any reasons to switch my support.

I'm NOT looking for perfection,not by a long shot; just someone whom I can believe is capable and trustworthy and conservative.

It's possible,though doubtful, that the MSM will talk about this thing. The smoking, at the end, would be the only reason anyone even mentions it and THAT won't get "good" coverage. It's gratuitous and is perhaps the ONLY reason it was thrown in there.

And should it get any kind of press and/or T.V. play, it WILL get mentioned that they guy is Cain's chief of staff. Of course someone's chief of staff is going to be singing the praises of whomever they are working for.

Perhaps it shall get attention; just don't be surprised if it's the WRONG kind of attention and THAT is also my point.

Political neophytes make mistakes;sadly Cain has made quite a lot of them.

Many of us ARE looking for the "unRomney".

I keep wishing that Cain would get better advisers and do what's needed to be that; sadly, he doesn't.

Obama is running in the GOP presidential primaries? REALLY ?

Are you that benighted, that this is all you can come up with...that I am an Obama supported?

Seek help.........you are in far worse shape,mentally, than you can suppose.

In all honesty, I don't know and neither do most people.

I don't think that I nod my head, one way or another;it's a subconcious thing.

I am not a body language expert.......I'm just relaying what those I've seen say.

You should pray that few people see this thing.

It doesn't help him with undecideds.

The thing ( it isn't even an ad, really ) is dumb.

I care that so many here don't see the forest for the tress.

Cain's chief of staff made it. We need to judge the quality of a candidate by whom he hires,what he does, and what he says. Cain has NO political record, outside of a failed primary. That's why every little jot and tittle matters.

Whatever it was, it was too much money. That’s my point and only that.

Cultist! LOL

Your "FAGGOT LANGUAGE" is also "etched" in cyberspace as well, which proves how dumb you are; pet.

And now you're also on record stating that you will be stalking me.

Fine.........have at it; it shall profit you nothing. :-)

Oh wonderful...........you post nothing but fatuous, witless personal insults and imagine that you are a true "thinker"? LOL

Lazy and inept is what you are; sweetums.

I keep wanting to want to vote for someone I can support and keep looking at all of them; closely!

Wasting money on this kind of thing says that he isn't fiscally responsible, so in that aspect, yes, it's important and does mean something.

He already has a base who likes him and that's who this thing ( it's hardly an "ad" ) is directed to.

And as far as what the thing "says",it's being taken as a "blank slate", though it truly isn't one, by his supporters here. And THAT is a shame!

I’m sick unto death of the damned nanny staters and this ad does less than NOTHING about that. It isn’t what the video is about at all; the smoking is gratuitous and puerile.

So now Cain is "the only Conservative running,is he?

I'm an undecided and yes, I do need a valid REASON/s to vote for someone in the primaries.

And every vote matters! You know that the Dems will vote in the open states,negating conservative voters' votes.

That's GREAT; yet, just how big is Cain's "fired up" base?

And I never claimed that that was bad.....just that they would have been just as fired up without this thing, which had to have cost something, which Cain can ill afford to shell out for, at this time.

It’s very early days and even with the now crazy moved up primaries...............yes, we’ll see about it all, in the coming months.

I don't "troll" Cain or any other threads.

You have no power to get me to stop posting, so don't even go there. LOL

You "grow up"!

I am an undecided !

I hate Romney, wouldn't vote for Paul with a gun to my head, don't think much of Perry who is only running because his wife wants to be First Lady, and don't care for the rest of the field.

I want someone to convince me that I should vote for them and to do so for a reason I can accept. Thus far......it's NOT happening.

Take off the blinkers......I proved your point completely!

You asserted that undecided smokers would love this thing and would rush to be Cain supporters. I quickly disabused of that notion.