Free Republic

How about 1 out of 5 people that want to work are unemployed

Shouldn’t the main focus be on jobs?

When will the dam break? 1 out of 4? 1 out of 3?

The health care bill is an 8% tax on payroll (employment)
It is a 2.5% tax on income. Total 10.5% tax!

It will motivate companies to outsource and off shore.
It will send more of the economy underground.
Cities, Counties, and States will collect less in tax, they
will have to cut back on education subsidies, let more criminals out of jail, and lay off more and more workers.

The federal government is broke. All they can do at this point is print more t bills and hope someone buys them.
When the FED buys them they are devaluing the dollar.

Simple enough?

‘No jobs, No consumer, no economic recovery. No jobs, no consumer’
You left out
no job, default on mortgage payment = more bank defaults
no job, default on car payment = more bank defaults
no job, default on rent payment = commercial loan defaults
no job, no tax payments to city,county,state,federal = layoffs of police, firemen, teachers

Yes, but shortly, to overcome the SS default crisis they will be means tested. So no SS$s for you if you have over a million in assets or an income of over 2x the poverty level.

This will be an economic crusher as seniors start hiding assets and income. Mattress(to hide the money in) and shovel (to bury money in the yard) sales will go through the roof.

None of these assets will go back into the system to create jobs.

That is the problem with gold investments, other than the people that mine and refine it, it doesn’t turn over in the economy.

‘Obama’s clock is in Jesus’ office. He’s using it as a ceiling fan.’

Frank Whittle (invented the jet engine) installed it as a turbine engine to power the up and escalators.

Question #1:
Shouldn’t the #1 priority be jobs and the economy?

This health care bill is a 10.5% additional direct tax
and at least underestimated cost of %50. Where will these
funds come from besides current jobs and debt against future
jobs?

#1 should be the 2.5 million jobs he lost since he assumed the throne.

Does anyone else think that he has a chip on his shoulder regarding the rich?

I wonder where he got it?
Hawaii in high school?
Jealousy of those that had more than he did?

What a crock,
How long can the China government cover up for US?
At some point they will diversify the instruments they purchase with dollars. At that point interest rates will be
out of the control of the Fed. 0 is in the same spot as many small business owners, he has to continually roll over the debt. As rates go up it will cost more and more.

Things they aren’t pointing out:
Fewer and fewer will be workers to shoulder the payment on the debt.

Interest on the debt is currently low. As they print more money the interest rate will rise and we will retroactively pay more interest on this massive debt.

Whey Republican leadership isn’t hammering on this double whammy of unemployment and debt service, is beyond me.

I would be placing ads in the paper that are a blank loan agreement that the tax payer can fill in their name, kids names, grand kids names to show that it is the people that must pay this debt, not the government!

The FAIL has just started!
All they did was to move up the purchases of those that
need/wanted to purchase a new car. Now those consumers
are satisfied. Sales will take at least a year to recover.

Need to pound out at every opportunity:
#1 Issue is JOBS!
#2 Issue is how will what they propose create jobs!

We need to organize a march of the unemployed on
Washington demanding that the administration focus
on creating real jobs.

This health care bill is a massive job killer! It
is an 8% payroll tax and a 2.5% income tax. 10.5%
of all payroll down the toilet.

it is a conspiracy of ignorance:

Too ignorant to know that:
Every dollar the government takes is a dollar that does not go to jobs and private investment.

Every government program is crippled by bureaucratic graft and inefficiencies.

Too any have been raised to expect entitlements and not have to learn and work for what they get.

‘Legislation must be passed that will be national in scope and will override state laws. We cannot tolerate the current circus of individual state laws, rules and mandates.’

Wrong! Each State has the right to govern as it pleases.
What would be next? Federal take over of State sales tax?

If you need to understand why is is so wrong just Google up Social Security disability benefits

You will see why the lawyer president and the lawyers in congress want to expand government into health care so badly. Just like you need a lawyer to represent you to get Social Security disability benefits you will need a lawyer to represent you to get anything other than basic health care treatment.

0 is in the jobs clock, unfortunately for him, the hands
are still turning backward.

It will get ugly when the unemployed start protesting, and ‘insisting’ that they should be at the top of the agenda.

>It is ALWAYS some one else’s fault, in the world of the >obamanation

First rule of taking advantage of affirmative action:
It is ALWAYS some one else’s fault.

Cities are about jobs. No jobs no need for a city.

Ironically, cities will be the hardest hit by Obamacare.

The healthcare bill is actually a tax on employment.
Given the competitive factors businesses will simply pay
the 8% tax on payroll an not provide any health care coverage.

They will make up more than the 8% by outsourceing and off shoring as much payroll as possible.

As cities primarily exist on payroll tax their incomes will be devastated.

As for individuals, most will simply default to the 2.5% income tax to pay for coverage.

Obama laughs all the way home with a 10.5% tax increase on all workers that have an agi > $85,000.

Business that opt out can pay an 8% penalty on payroll.
This is far less than the average 11% of payroll they currently pay for health care.

For individuals can choose plan and pay out of pocket premiums current average is $13,000 with post tax dollars!

If they don’t choose a plan then the fee is added to the tax bill by taking 2.5% of AGI after subtracting $17,900 (the minimum taxable income) up to the average annual average premium of $13,000.

For example, if a married family makes $100,000 AGI, they would have to pay .025 * ($100,000 - $17,900) = $2,052.50. Why would they purchase a private plan?

The break even AGI with the status quo is about $130,000 as the currently the employee contribution is pre tax whereas the above payment would be post tax. In other words those with a combined AGI of more than $130,000 would pay more under this plan.

Affordable Premium Credits:

For individuals or combined AGI less than $88,200 a sliding scale is used that caps payment at 11%
at the $88,200 level, or $9,700 (4 x the poverty level).
Down to 3% of $28,668 (1.3 x the poverty level) or $860.

Unintended Consequences of this Bill:
Businesses will be highly motivated to further minimize headcount (payroll). We will see millions and millions of jobs lost to automation, jobs moved off shore, and as many employees converted to contractors as possible.

American’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009

Affordable?

For businesses? Yes!
Business that opt out can pay an 8% penalty on payroll.
This is far less than the average 11% of payroll they currently pay for health care.

Most businesses cost share and pay 73% (for family coverage) and 84% (for individual coverage).
The employee pays the balance pre tax. which is on average just over $3000 per year.

For individuals:
Can choose plan and pay out of pocket premiums current average is $13,000 with post tax dollars!

If they don’t choose a plan then the fee is added to the tax bill by taking 2.5% of AGI after subtracting $17,900 (the minimum taxable income) up to the average annual average premium of $13,000.

For example, if a married family makes $100,000 AGI, they would have to pay .025 * ($100,000 - $17,900) = $2,052.50. Why would they purchase a private plan?

The break even AGI with the status quo is about $130,000 as the currently the employee contribution is pre tax whereas the above payment would be post tax. In other words those with a combined AGI of more than $130,000 would pay more under this plan.

Affordable Premium Credits:

For individuals or combined AGI less than $88,200 a sliding scale is used that caps payment at 11%
at the $88,200 level, or $9,700 (4 x the poverty level).
Down to 3% of $28,668 (1.3 x the poverty level) or $860.

Unintended Consequences of this Bill:
Businesses will be highly motivated to further minimize headcount (payroll). We will see millions and millions of jobs lost to automation, jobs moved off shore, and as many employees converted to contractors as possible.

You left off that this bill will be the biggest jobs killer of all time!

It will redefine how businesses view employees.

The bill allows business to pay a tax on payroll rather than
pay for health insurance directly. The tax is much lower than the cost of the health care! It can be made lower by minimizing the total payroll.
Anything that can be outsourced will be outsourced.
Anything that can be sent off shore will be sent off shore.
Anything that can be automated will be automated.
Anyone that can be turned into a subcontractor will be subcontracted.

Millions and Millions of jobs will be lost!
The concept of ‘employee’ will be changed forever!
Individuals will end up paying the full freight for health care, not just the fraction they pay now.

Thank you.

From my reading of your analysis,
THIS IS THE LARGEST JOBS KILLING BILL IN HISTORY!

The push will be for to minimize payroll dollars and thus
minimize the base for the 8% penalty. (for not providing coverage). Companies will:
1. Reevaluate headcount and eliminate all non critical personnel. This has already happened but an additional 8% has to be made up somewhere.
2. Automate where ever possible, many part time jobs will be lost to self service checkouts, tellers and anything else that can be computerized.
3. Convert any jobs to off site independent contractors.
(by legal definition it is far easier to convert an employee to a contractor if they work off site)
4. Increase Off shore jobs. Any function that can be done out of the US will be moved.