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Posts by Pukadon

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  • NYT Touts White House Artworks, Misses Obvious Copy, Apparent Fraud (Freeper Breaks the Story)

    10/15/2009 8:14:11 PM PDT · 201 of 212
    Pukadon to Beelzebubba

    Yes, I can provide you with some examples; Picasso is actually considered one of the first appropriation artists, although candidly the ‘appropriation art’ of artists like Sherri Levine is much beyond what he ever did.

    Here are a couple of quotes I think you’ll find of interest. The first is about Picasso, and the second is by Picasso himself, both are from the same source:

    “Picasso was criticised for his interpretation or appropriation of other artists’ work. Today this art practice is widely accepted.”

    http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/picasso/home/ed/case_studies

    ‘What is an artist, basically? He’s a collector who wants to establish a collection of his own, making the pictures himself that he likes by other people. That’s how I begin, and then it turns into something else.’
    -Pablo Picasso

    http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/picasso/home/ed/case_studies

    Here’s another quote from Wikipedia:

    “During 1957 Pablo Picasso painted 58 recreations of Las Meninas.” (Las Meninas is a painting originally by Diego Velázquez)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Meninas

    Picasso is actually known for recreating numerous paintings by other “Old Masters,” including Cezanne and Manet. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find images on the web; presumably this is because their current owners are less flexible on copyright law than he was :)

    Also, I apologize for overreacting in my last post; I haven’t given you enough credit and I took this too personally. I do understand where you’re coming from, and I realize we are coming from vastly opposing viewpoints.

  • NYT Touts White House Artworks, Misses Obvious Copy, Apparent Fraud (Freeper Breaks the Story)

    10/15/2009 7:58:35 AM PDT · 199 of 212
    Pukadon to Beelzebubba

    You can read all you like about Picasso’s African-influenced period on Wikipedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasso

    One of the African-influenced pieces Picasso is most famous for is his 1907 Les Demoiselles d’Avignon. Countless artists have made their own variations inspired by this work. One such example is the 1991 quilt-like painting by the African American artist Faith Ringgold, which directly uses portions of Picasso’s original composition.

    http://greg.org/archive/ringgold_picasso_studio.jpg

    There are thousands of other examples I can refer you to – Andy Warhol created an entire series of Last Supper paintings based on the original by da Vinci, many of which he literally created by screen-printing photographs of da Vinci’s painting onto a new canvas. You will not need to overlay any gifs to recognize that the compositions are identical. Warhol made common use of this practice of “copying” others’ works and recreating them, yet he is so highly respected that he’s widely considered the one of the most influential American artists ever, and there’s even a US postage stamp with his portrait on it.

    There’s no misunderstanding of copyright law on my part; these are all established works of art that have been bought and sold for decades. There is only a misunderstanding on your part. You’re giving yourself too much credit for being able to accurately compare and understand two works of art after seeing only tiny thumbnails on the internet, and you’re also professing to “break news” of a relationship between two works of art even though that relationship has been known and discussed since 1963. Based on only the most cursory internet research you’ve gone ahead and accused a decent, hardworking person of outright legal misdoing. I think you’re doing it all to make some political point which has no bearing on the life and work of Thomas.

    I think it would be appropriate to post an apology and a correction, but at the very least I implore you to give some more thought to the matter before you jump to similar conclusions in the future.

  • NYT Touts White House Artworks, Misses Obvious Copy, Apparent Fraud (Freeper Breaks the Story)

    10/14/2009 3:13:09 PM PDT · 196 of 212
    Pukadon to Beelzebubba

    I understand that you disagree, and I understand why, so let me explain this from a different angle:

    Would it possible for you to stand in front of the artwork by Matisse and have the same experience that you have when you stand in front of the artwork by Thomas?

    There are numerous differences between the two pieces, obvious differences being that one is a painting and one is a paper collage (these are fundamentally different media, as far apart as acoustic versus electric guitar), but also that they are different colors. However, I submit to you that you would not have the same experience looking at the two, if for no other reason than that they were created by two different people.

    Regardless, everything I’ve read indicates the following:

    “Thomas’s 1963 painting, Watusi (Hard Edge) was originally created as a deliberate reworking of Matisse’s large 1953 cutout collage,l’Escargot, and that it had always been recognized and discussed as such by the people who followed Thomas’s work.”

    Given that Thomas did openly acknowledge the relationship (as cited in the thread above) and that she made significant changes between hers and Matisse’s work (she changed the orientation, color, and media) she has met the criteria you’re concerned about. The real questions you should be asking:

    Why would a black female American painter make a painting that so obviously refers to one of the most famous white male European painters’ works? And beyond that, what does it say about us today that we’re so suspicious of such a person, even though she was forthright about the inspiration, and we know she was an accomplished and self-conscious artist, who studied at both Harvard and Columbia?

    Artists like Picasso originally became famous for taking inspiration from ‘primitive’ African art and translating that style into European oil paintings. When Thomas made this oil painting in the 1960’s, she was under heavy pressure to paint in a way that spoke of her identity as a black woman, which typically meant figuratively, and yet she chose to make this painting, directly inspired by European abstraction and modernism. I think this painting is a direct question from Thomas, and she’s asking if she’s allowed to make this painting. I know you’ve made up your mind, but I humbly suggest that this painting is about a dilemma Matisse could never have made a painting about, and I request that you reconsider your evaluation of it.

  • NYT Touts White House Artworks, Misses Obvious Copy, Apparent Fraud (Freeper Breaks the Story)

    10/14/2009 10:38:19 AM PDT · 194 of 212
    Pukadon to Beelzebubba

    You have completely missed the point - there is no such thing as plagiarism in the visual arts. One cannot copy and paste a painting like one might copy and paste a passage of text. It’s no more possible for a painting to be an exact copy of a paper collage than it is for a singer to exactly reproduce another’s song.

    When you listen to Jimi Hendrix’s version of “All Along the Watchtower” you’re not hearing Hendrix plagiarize Bob Dylan, you’re hearing a separate interpretation of the song; one that expands the original and connects the two artists. This is what is happening when you compare the painting by Thomas with Matisse’s collage - nothing more, nothing less.