Free Republic

In Convention Mr. RUTLIDGE moved to postpone the 6th Resolution, defining the powers of Congs. in order to take up the 7 & 8 which involved the most fundamental points; the rules of suffrage in the 2 branches which was agreed to nem. con. A question being proposed on Resol: 7 [FN1]: declaring that the suffrage in the first branch sd. be according to an equitable ratio. Mr. L. MARTIN contended at great length and with great eagerness that the General Govt. was meant merely to preserve the State Governts.: not to govern individuals: that its powers ought to be...

On the Precipice of Democracy. Madison Speech. Fourth Resolution. Length of Terms. Lifetime? Purpose of Second Branch. Six Year Terms. Senatorial Salaries. Who pays? Minimum Wealth Requirement. Subsequent Office Eligibility. Fifth Resolution, Originating Acts. In Convention The duration of the 2d. branch [FN1] under consideration. Mr. GHORUM moved to fill the blank with "six years," one third of the members to go out every second year. Mr. WILSON 2ded. the motion. Genl. PINKNEY opposed six years in favor of four years. The States he said had different interests. Those of the Southern, and of S. Carolina in particular were different...

Fourth Resolution. Superb Pinckney Speech. Parliament. Appointment to Second Branch by State Legislatures. Minimum Age Requirement. Length of Terms. In Convention Resolution 4. [FN1] being taken up. Mr. PINKNEY [FN2] spoke as follows- The efficacy of the System will depend on this article. In order to form a right judgmt. in the case, it will be proper to examine the situation of this Country more accurately than it has yet been done. The people of the U. States are perhaps the most singular of any we are acquainted with. Among them there are fewer distinctions of fortune & less of...

Third Resolution, a Kingdom Divided. First Branch Salaries. Corruption. Subsequent Office Eligibility. In Convention The 3. Resol: resumed. [FN1] On [FN2] Question yesterday postponed by S. Carol: for agreeing to the whole sentence "for allowing an adequate compensation to be paid out of the Treasury of the U. States" Masts. ay. Cont. no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pena. ay Del. no. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo divided. [FN3] So the question was lost, & the sentence not inserted: Genl. PINKNEY moves to strike out the ineligibility of members of the 1st. branch...

Third Resolution. First Branch Salaries. Minimum Age Requirement. Subsequent Office Eligibility. In Convention The clause in Resol. 3. [FN1] "to receive fixed stipends to be paid out of the Nationl. Treasury" [FN2] considered. Mr. ELSEWORTH, moved to substitute payment by the States out of their own Treasurys: observing that the manners of different States were very different in the Stile of living and in the profits accruing from the exercise of like talents. What would be deemed therefore a reasonable compensation in some States, in others would be very unpopular, and might impede the system of which it made a...

Danger from States to National Government. Small v. Large States. Two Branch Legislature. Third Resolution. Popular Election of First Branch. Length of Terms. In Convention Mr. Jonathan Dayton from N. Jersey took his seat. [FN1] [FN3] Docr. JOHNSON. On a comparison of the two plans which had been proposed from Virginia & N. Jersey, it appeared that the peculiarity which characterized the latter was its being calculated to preserve the individuality of the States. The plan from Va. did not profess to destroy this individuality altogether, but was charged with such a tendency. One Gentleman alone (Col. Hamilton) in his...

First and Second Resolutions. Lansing Speech. State or National Supremacy. Mason Speech. Attributes of Federal v. Republican Governments. IN CONVENTION Mr. William Blount from N. Carolina took his seat. 1st. propos: [FN2] of the Report of Come. of the whole [FN3] before the House. Mr. ELSEWORTH 2ded. by Mr. GORHAM, moves to alter it so as to run "that the Government of the United States ought to consist of a supreme legislative, Executive and Judiciary." This alteration he said would drop the word national, and retain the proper title "the United States." He could not admit the doctrine that a...

Madison Speech. End of NJ/Patterson Plan. Randolph Plan as Amended. In Committee of the Whole On the Propositions of Mr. Patterson [FN1] The substitute offered yesterday by Mr. Dickenson being rejected by a vote now taken on it; Con. N. Y. N. J. Del. ay. [FN2] Mas. Pa. V. N. C. S. C. Geo. no. [FN3] Mayd. divided. Mr. PATTERSON's plan was again at large before the Committee. Mr. MADISON. Much stress had [FN4] been laid by some gentlemen on the want of power in the Convention to propose any other than a federal plan. To what had been answered...

IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON THE PROPOSITIONS OF Mr. PATTERSON & Mr. RANDOLPH On motion of Mr. DICKINSON to postpone the 1st. Resolution in Mr. Patterson's plan, in order to take up the following viz-"that the Articles of Confederation ought to be revised and amended, so as to render the Government of the U.S. adequate to the exigences, the preservation and the prosperity of the Union" the postponement was agreed to by 10 States, Pen: divided. Mr. HAMILTON, had been hitherto silent on the business before the Convention, partly from respect to others whose superior abilities age & experience...

Patterson Plan Debate. Lansing Speech. Federal v. National. Articles as Treaty. Comparison of Plans. Wilson Speech. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON [FN1] RESOLUTIONS PROPOSD. BY MR. P. & MR. R Mr. LANSING called for the reading of the 1st. resolution of each plan, which he considered as involving principles directly in contrast; that of Mr. Patterson says he sustains the sovereignty of the respective States, that of Mr. Randolph distroys it: the latter requires a negative on all the laws of the particular States; the former, only certain general powers for the general good. The plan of Mr. R....

NJ/Patterson Plan. Imposts and Stamp Tax. Regulate Trade. Tax Requisitions. Force to Collect Taxes. Multiple Supreme Executives. Judicial Branch & Jurisdiction. Compel State Compliance. New States. [FN2]Mr. PATTERSON, laid before the Convention the plan which he said several of the deputations wished to be substituted in place of that proposed by Mr. Randolph. After some little discussion of the most proper mode of giving it a fair deliberation it was agreed that it should be referred to a Committee of the whole, and that in order to place the two plans in due comparison, the other should be recommitted. At...

Early Adjournment. Work on more Federal Plan. IN CONVENTION Mr. PATTERSON, observed to the Convention that it was the wish of several deputations, particularly that of N. Jersey, that further time might be allowed them to contemplate the plan reported from the Committee of the Whole, and to digest one purely federal, and contradistinguished from the reported plan. He said they hoped to have such an one ready by tomorrow to be laid before the Convention: And the Convention adjourned that leisure might be given for the purpose.

Supreme Court Jurisdiction. Second branch to appoint Judges. Money bills to originate in first branch. Report of the Committee of the Whole on Randolph Plan. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Resol: 9 [FN1] being resumed. The latter parts of the clause relating to the jurisdiction of the Natil. tribunals, was struck out nem. con in order to leave full room for their organization. Mr. RANDOLPH & Mr. MADISON, then moved the following resolution respecting a National Judiciary, viz "that the jurisdiction of the National Judiciary shall extend to cases, which respect the collection of the national revenue, impeachments of any...

Three year terms and minimum age in first branch. Fixed salaries paid by National Government. Dual service in National Legislature and as officer of US. Term limits. Seven year Senatorial terms. No salary for Senators. IN COMMITTEE OF THE [FN1] WHOLE The Question [FN2] taken on Resolution 15, [FN3] to wit, referring the new system to the people of the [FN4] States for ratification it passed in the affirmative: Massts. ay. Cont. no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. Pa. [FN5] ay. Del. divd. Md. divd. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [FN6] Mr. SHARMAN &...

Topics: Proportional Representation in the House. Representation based on taxes paid. Representation based on population. Slaves, Cattle & Horses. Equality of State Suffrage in the Senate. Proportional Representation in the Senate. Republican Government. Amendment provision. Oaths of office. Ben Franklin speech. Do away with states? MR. ABRAHAM BALDWIN from Georgia took his seat in the committee of the whole. The clause concerning the rule of suffrage in the natl. Legislature postponed on Saturday was resumed. Mr. SHARMAN proposed that the proportion of suffrage in the 1st. branch should be according to the respective numbers of free inhabitants; and that in...

Today being Sunday, the Convention did not meet. This is not to say important work was not done. Roger Sherman and some Small State delegates probably met to discuss a compromise, a proportionally based House and equal State representation in the Senate, which will be discussed tomorrow. Despite authoring and nurturing the compromise that saved the Convention and most likely his country, Roger Sherman is one of the most neglected Framers. I call him the Principled Pragmatist. He either signed/attended or helped write the 1774 Declaration of Resolves, the First and Second Congresses, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation,...

Governors Elect National Executive. Senate Suffrage. William Patterson Speech. Small State Revolt. Mr. Luther Martin from Maryland took up his seat in committee of the whole. Mr. GERRY, according to previous notice given by him, moved "that the National Executive should be elected by the Executives of the States whose proportion of votes should be the same with that allowed to the States in the election of the Senate." If the appointmt. should be made by the Natl. Legislature, it would lessen that independence of the Executive which ought to prevail, would give birth to intrigue and corruption between the...

Large State/Small State Rift. National Legislative Veto of State Laws. National Executive. Proportional Representation in First Branch. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE On a reconsideration of the clause giving the Natl. Legislature a negative on such laws of the States as might be contrary to the articles of Union, or Treaties with foreign nations, Mr. PINKNEY moved "that the National Legislature shd. have authority to negative all laws which they shd. judge to be improper." He urged that such a universality of the power was indispensably necessary to render it effectual; that the States must be kept in due subordination...

State Legislatures Appoint Senators. Proportional, Popular Election to Senate. State Governor Election of National Executive. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. PINKNEY according to notice moved to reconsider the clause respecting the negative on State laws, which was agreed to and tomorrow for fixed [FN2] the purpose. The Clause providing for ye. appointment of the 2d. branch of the national Legislature, having lain blank since the last vote on the mode of electing it, to wit, by the 1st. branch, Mr. DICKINSON now moved "that the members of the 2d. branch ought to be chosen by the individual Legislatures." Mr....

Democratic v. Republican Principles. State Legislatures Elect First Branch. Most Excellent Madison Speech. Council of Revision. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. PINKNEY according to previous notice & rule obtained, moved "that the first branch of the national Legislature be elected by the State Legislatures, and not by the people." contending that the people were less fit Judges in such a case, and that the Legislatures would be less likely to promote the adoption of the new Government, if they were to be excluded from all share in it. Mr. RUTLIDGE 2ded. the motion. Mr. GERRY. Much depends on the...