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To: Thermalseeker
Ice core data shows C02 rise follows temperature rise, not the other way around.....

Am I the only one who struggles with a theory that includes effects that precede the cause? How is it that the warmth comes first and the CO2 that causes the warmth follows it?

It would seem much more reasonable to conclude that the rise in CO2 is an effect, like the carbonation leaving your diet Pepsi as it reaches room temperature. But that would leave you to search for a reasonable explanation for the global temperature rise, something like the variations in the amount of solar energy being emitted.

But then no one could blame mankind, and that is unacceptable.

16 posted on 10/27/2009 11:37:06 AM PDT by Senator_Blutarski (No good deed goes unpunished.)
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To: Senator_Blutarski

The CO2 could be released from tundra that is thawing as the Earth warms.


18 posted on 10/27/2009 11:45:45 AM PDT by darth
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To: Senator_Blutarski
If you can find a copy, read “Not By Fire, But By Ice” by Felix.

This guy is incredibly brilliant at synthesizing all the sources and results of natural warming and cooling of earth over the millennia - he has over 2000 scientific source papers he has analyzed.

Plus - he's a great writer - its an easy read.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=not+by+fire+but+by+ice+felix&x=19&y=17

30 posted on 10/27/2009 1:21:53 PM PDT by HardStarboard ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule - Mencken knew Obama)
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To: Senator_Blutarski
How is it that the warmth comes first and the CO2 that causes the warmth follows it?

Apparently, as evidenced by sun spot data going back to Galileo's time, and corresponding data taken from tree rings, ice cores and direct temperature measurements, variation in the output of the sun is the culprit. This variation occurs at regular intervals and the precise reason for the variation, as far as I am aware, is not known. What is known is periods of low sunspot activity directly correspond to periods of cool temps here on earth, and, as more recently observed, on Mars. The opposite is also true, i.e., periods of high sunspot activity correspond to higher temps here on the Earth and Mars.

Periods of low sunspot activity are generally referred to as "minimums". Periods of high sunspot activity are referred to as "maximums". Historically, the Sporer Minimum (1460-1550), the Maunder Minimum (1645-1715), the Dalton Minimum (1790-1830) all corresponded with extended periods of below normal temperatures. Although the precise dates of the "Little Ice Age" are disputed, it occurred during the Maunder Minimum. You can see the effects of this trend in etchings, carvings and paintings from the period showing people ice skating on various rivers in Europe and the UK.

Conversely, the Medieval Warming Period (800-1300)corresponds to the Medieval Maximum. The warming that occurred in the 20th Century corresponds to what is called the "Modern Maximum". We seem to be exiting the Modern Minimum now, though. We are currently 11 years into a cooling trend. It just so happens that we are also deep in a period of little or no sunspot activity.

It would seem much more reasonable to conclude that the rise in CO2 is an effect, like the carbonation leaving your diet Pepsi as it reaches room temperature. But that would leave you to search for a reasonable explanation for the global temperature rise, something like the variations in the amount of solar energy being emitted.

The problem with the C02 effect is that C02 is only .036% of the atmosphere. There have been periods in history where the C02 levels have been much higher, but temps much lower.

But then no one could blame mankind, and that is unacceptable.

The modern environmental movement, and especially those who preach anthropogenic global warming are far, far more interested in controlling others and making a buck, as opposed to truly being concerned about the Earth. The modern environmental movement, and especially the global warming crowd, really got going in earnest after the fall of the Soviet Union. I've often read that the new home of the Communist Part is the modern environmental movement. I've heard it described as being like a watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside. That would explain a lot, wouldn't it?

39 posted on 10/28/2009 5:29:24 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Stop the insanity - Flush Congress!)
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