Posted on 02/16/2012 6:19:01 AM PST by SeekAndFind
We may be more like the Roman Republic in the first century BCE.
The problem with the stupid Rome analogies is that they are made by people with precisely zero knowledge of Roman history.
Particularly when it’s the “moral decay” stuff. The Western Roman Empire didn’t collapse until after it went Christian (which Gibbons asserts is one of the main causes of the decline, though obviously that’s highly disputed.) But during Rome’s decline there were many Roman authors blaming it on abandoning the traditional Pagan gods.
RE: We may be more like the Roman Republic in the first century BCE.
Cool, we have a few hundred years left before the sacking takes place :)
But I will say two things:
1) Rome is an example of a great world power that did decline and which did break apart and fall away. This fate could also happen to us.
2) The Classical world of Greece and Rome brought civilization to many places in the world and elevated millions of people. When that Classical world declined and faded, there were long-lasting repercussions. One could argue that the world today is still dealing with the divisions caused by the ends of the Eastern and Western Roman empires.
If America, and the ideals of America, were to fade away, I think it would take a thousand years for humanity to recover from the cultural blow.
Not sure if Gibbons thesis about Christianity bringing down the Roman Empire is correct...
The empire was on the decline well before Christianity was becoming a dominant force. From 235-284, the Roman Empire was engaging in civil war. Contenders for the throne bribed soldiers to become the next emperor. Although, out of 22 emperors, there were only two that didn’t meet with a violent or deadly demise.
At the same time, Sassanid Persians were invading Rome and Valerian was captured and held in captivity until he died. German tribes were flooding into the empire, disrupting boundaries by moving into Greece and Asia minor.
Aurelian tried to restore the empire by building new walls, however war and invasions had already taken their toll on the government. So where were the Christians at this time and what impact were they having? They weren’t present, nor did they have a hand in the invasions and civil war.
Economically, farm production was deteriorating as fields were ravaged by barbarians and by Romes own armies.
The Romans confiscated produce and livestock from farmers, therefore they themselves directly contributed to the failing economy.
Gold coins were disappearing from circulation, while silver was being diluted causing inflation. To put it simply, the economy was being depleted by invasions and social issues, excluding religions that were monotheistic and were hardly having an impact of the fall at the time.
Again, what did Christians have to do with these?
What transpired on 9/11 wasn't just a terrorist attack.
True. The Romans weren’t continually doped up on the hallucinogens of mass media.
Where is this incessant déjà vu coming from?
And why do I see Caligula, Tiberius, Livia, Nero, and Commodus every time I turn on the TV set?
And why do I suddenly understand Roman decadence so clearly? in all its frustration and horror? its incredibility suddenly credible?
And why do the words of William Faulkner (Absalom! Absalon!), Ovid, Gibbon, and Robert Graves keep ringing in my ears?
And why do I have this unsettling feeling that you're whistling in the dark?
Where is this incessant déjà vu coming from?
And why do I see Caligula, Tiberius, Livia, Nero, and Commodus every time I turn on the TV set?
And why do I suddenly understand Roman decadence so clearly? in all its frustration and horror? its incredibility suddenly credible?
And why do the words of William Faulkner (Absalom! Absalon!), Ovid, Gibbon, and Robert Graves keep ringing in my ears?
And why do I have this unsettling feeling that you're whistling in the dark?
And why does the once heroic American electorate resemble the Roman Mob more and more each day?
But not very long before we have an emperor, and we already have proscriptions. It’s called eminent domain. And we may have our Julius Caeser in the White House.
At least. If ever.
One enormous difference between Rome and America is American idealism and The American Dream: liberty, justice, and prosperity for all of the people of the world.
Nothing like The American Dream even entered the minds of Rome.
I knew you were going to say that ...
Right now we’re more like 1933 Germany.
Perversely--Americans who hate the United States, notably the fifth column in the press, Washington, Hollywood, academia, et al., but claim to aspire to universal liberty and justice, and non-Americans who hate the United States and aspire to its destruction, because they consider it an impediment to their ambitions and rising expectations, do so in a misguided and perverse attempt to follow The American Dream.
The great irony is that all of these people would achieve the very objectives to which they claim to aspire if they would embrace the very principles on which the U.S.A. was founded: liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness for all people.
These very principles created the greatest, richest, and most just nation the world has ever known. They can do the same for all of the people of the world if they were just wise enough to embrace them.
The difference between the US and Rome is that our Vandals are within, not without. God help us all the day that the gub'mint checks aren't mailed and the EBT cards stop working.
No metaphor is perfect.
A Roman one that applies is the concept of “Bread and Circuses” - rising to power by promising stuff to the public.
Getting a free ride (by not paying tax, etc.) and the promise of unhindered sex is a modern equivalent.
Here’s a quote from the Roman satirist Juvenal, that I pulled from wiki:
“Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses”
I would not stand in front of a toddler with a Popsicle stick to protect Obama, and I hope no one else would either, including someone whose life is worthwhile like a Secret Service agent. Despite my unwillingness to do anything on his behalf, I hope nothing happens to Obama prior to him being voted out of office in disgrace. I want him to live to a ripe old age as a disappointed tyrant wannabe who gets to watch every revolting vestige of his anti-American regime repealed, until the only evidence that he ever occupied our White House is as a footnote in our history books and a more motivated, informed, and vigilant voting public.
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