Posted on 08/13/2004 9:36:00 AM PDT by IdaBriggs
Hello. I am hoping you can help me.
I am trying to "reach out" to your side of the world in an effort to help each side understand the other. I apologize in advance if I offend or upset any of you, because that is NOT my intention. I hope by putting my "real name" on this post, you will view what I am about to say in the sincere way I mean it.
I am somewhat frightened of you.
Again, I apologize if I am offending, but I thought you should know about it. I also know I am not alone in my feelings about you because I have talked with other people who feel the same way. We think you are trying to impose your religion and way of life on the rest of us.
I know most of you are good people. You are kind and generous with your friends, family and neighbors. You help strangers change tires, work as teachers, risk your lives in the service of others -- all things everyone admires, respects and honors. Those of us on "the other side" do the same thing.
But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path. That is very hurtful, and it makes us feel like you don't really see us as fellow human beings with different understandings of God. I am a gardener by hobby, and not always a very good one. My husband likes to tease me about "killing plants" instead of growing them because sometimes I over water or put too much fertilizer on them, yet every year I keep trying, and gradually, my garden is starting to become beautiful. I love roses in particular, and am reminded every day how wonderful God is because He made so many different kinds – I have three different red roses alone, and each one is perfect! I have seven different colors of Petunias, and use them to explain how God loves people of all colors to my neighbor's children. I guess that is why I believe you, who scare me so, really do have love in your hearts for all of us, even though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.
The worst times are when the topics of Abortion and Gay Sex come up. No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER, yet you persist in making these topics of conversation as if they trump all other considerations. The only way I can reconcile this with a rational viewpoint is if I think you believe you are trying to SAVE those who don't believe the way you do from Hell. This seems to be a very loving action on your part, but feels rude and controlling in a not-positive way to the rest of us. Many of us do not believe these things will result in eternal damnation, but are simply part of God’s plan for each individual.
If you are truly horrified by the thought of these things, I don’t know what to say to make it easier for you to understand, but I will still try. I guess it would be like making everyone not wear jewelry or make up because some churches believe adornment is demonstrating vanity; it may end up being something we are all judged by, but it may also simply be a misreading or misinterpretation of the text. I am not saying your adherence to the tenets of your faith is wrong; I am saying other people have a right to love God in their own ways, and our civil laws should not be about defining “sin” but crime.
I say again, I am not meaning to offend. I have a very strong faith in God, and trust him to do the right thing. I don't like hearing people say that God is judging all of America based on who is President; both men have qualities worthy of admiration at some level, and both are interviewing for the job of enforcing our constitution. It demands we keep church and state as separate institutions so that we don't have wars in this country over religion (like they do in Ireland with Catholics and Protestants or in Iraq with Sunni's and Shiites). It demands I respect your right NOT to have an abortion if you don't want one, and NOT to indulge in gay sex if you don't want to, and to follow the teachings of your faith in the way you best understand them. It demands we all work "for the common defense, promote the general welfare and ensure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" and on behalf of that, I am reaching out to you to find out how we can frame the debates on these things without heaping scorn and shame upon each other. No matter what the results of the November 2, 2004, election, I personally want all Americans to be proud of our country, and the way we run it.
I know I am already.
In Humble Sincerity, Ida M. Briggs
Nice. I guess you are fortunate that your Mother decided to allow you to breath air.
Do you feel the same way about providing care for old people?
I mean, gee, why should I have to use any of my money to keep my parents alive when they get old? Should I have the right to do with my money as I please??
Why should I have to provide any of my money to keep my parents alive simply because some idiot believes that old folks should be allowed to keep on living??
[[[/sarcasm]]]
Why would I support those mediocrity factories/indoctrination centers known as public schools?
Unless you do not care about them after they are born, but then why would you care about them before they are born?
This is just plain silly. Are you perhaps mentally defective?
The fact that I support laws that criminalize murder in no way makes me responsible for the well-being of your life.
I don't want you murdered, but there ends any obligation.
I haven't gone to DU to mingle in over 2 years at least. Hell, I wasn't even trying to troll today.
(lets see if I can finish this without getting bumped offline yet again)
I am sorry.. I meant to preview that post, NOT post it, and was pinging the other 2 to this thread...
I was not trying to out you, I just f***ed up, and I am sorry, and even more sorry it took so long for me to say that...
:(
I notice a pattern to your replies.
For instance, this non-sequitur.
It bedevils you that my arguments and reasoning don't fit your cut and paste, rote assertions, so you plow ahead regardless of what I say, even though your points don't even address my replies or positions.
You're... you're not very good at this, are you?
I hope you are able to return to DU to correct the notion conveyed in this message, which was posted to your thread over there: "you know...i doubt most of these folks would be in favor of granting slaves full personhood (chief justice rhenquist, among others, shares this view) or "freeing the slaves" if they had that choice to make. many of them think MLK, for example, was a communist out to destroy the american way of life. as an experiment, perhaps your next thread should be about race. let's see how quickly those who use the slavery analogy for the unborn revert to their true colors. let's see how much "value" the place on certain human lives with skin colors different from their own (i know 99.9% of freepers are white)."
Your original post here said this about us:
"But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path. That is very hurtful, and it makes us feel like you don't really see us as fellow human beings with different understandings of God."
I hope you can see how hateful and hurtful some of your colleagues over on DU can be.
Suggesting that we would support the return of slavery is about as hateful as a person can be.
I wonder what Ida's impressions are of the comparison between what she saw here and what she saw there during this little soiree...Maybe I'll ask when there's a calm moment.
Why on earth would those people at that site (DU) think that the same rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness wouldn't also apply to black people?
I think this is an example of Dr. Thomas Sowell's axiom that a "racist" is anyone winning an argument with a liberal.
(For DU monitors who don't know, Dr. Sowell is black. And he's smarter than you.)
Excellent reply, Gail.
I think you mean "neuter, " don't you? Normally, I don't nitpick about words, but do you really want to NURTURE the pod people?
So, Ida, I'm wondering how long you think DUh Skinner would have allowed a thread like this to exist on DU?
I hope your eyes have been opened a tiny crack as to what a closed-minded walk-in-lockstep echo chamber DU is compared to here.
Glad to see you've lasted this long.
Look closely at that phrase. The most fundamental of rights granted by the Constitution, which acknowledges the Creator, by the way, is the right to life. It doesn't say that a person is only entitled to that life when he or she reaches a certain gestational or chronological age.
Oh, and to help you in answering my question, I quote you from DU:
"P.S. A very brave person named ToadOracle came over to check us out. I hope you all treat him/her with the same level of courtesy I was shown. All things considered, I think they did a good job of being politely welcoming, and I very much appreciated it."
ToadOracle was tombstoned on DU in seven posts.
If they want an 'experiment' on racism, all I got to say is that the worst racism there is against blacks are in DEMOCRAT (or RINO) soccer mom inner ring(especially) suburbs. They are 'oh so inclusive'. They support blacks 100%.....until they move in to their neighborhoods and MOST IMPORTANTLY, want to go to little Taylors' schools. Then their true colors show. When they hit the 30-40% mark, they all start moving out. Southfield is now moving to Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield.
In my own case, I don't give a damn about skin color. I've voted for people who were white Americans, black Americans and I've voted for an American of Mexican ancestry. They all had one thing in common. They were the best INDIVIDUAL for the job. I have worked on the campaigns of those who were non-white or partially white, as well as those who were white. Again, they were the best individual for the job.
I have no use for racists, whether it be Julian Bond and the leadership of the NAACP, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson, nor David Duke or Robert Byrd.
I hope I'm not offending you. In my religion we believe that people as dumb as you are should be euthanized. Nothing personal. I hope you don't mind if we get together in our "right to die" groups and lobby for laws to allow us to get rid of dumb people. I hope this doesn't scare you. You see, we believe that no one dies unless God wants them to die so it really wouldn't make any difference if we did euthanize dumb people.
Its easy not to get banned when you don't participate. Works pretty well, doesn't it, Ida?
Ida? Uh....Ida?
Idaknow, I think she's gone.
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