Posted on 08/04/2011 5:51:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
Thanks battousai!
That ... would be one ugly horse.
The drought was completely unexpected. There’s some evidence that the monsoon cycle (the one that causes famine in Africa due to lack of rain when it cycles down) was discerned by the Egyptians, whose fortunes were inextricably tied to the Nile “out of season” flood cycle. And they were also aware of the cause of that cycle, which is snowmelt. Herodotus recorded that as the fourth and (as he saw it) least likely of the four explanations he was told in Egypt for the odd flood cycle of the Nile.
Thanks muawiyah.
Papyrus Ipuwer, FR, w/ thanks to Fred Nerks:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/999861/posts?page=11#11
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1912063/posts?page=19#19
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2483502/posts?page=15#15
and w/ thanks to ml/nj:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/999988/posts?page=7#7
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2049391/posts?page=8#8
and VannRox:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744698/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/669255/posts
and (shudder) medved:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742387/posts?page=144#144
Don't give him any ideas. He might have a staff flunky look up Emperor Caligula’s motto: Oderint dum metuant "Let them hate so long as they fear”.
I already both hate and fear the government!
Almost makes me weep each time I read the HYMNS AND LAMENTATIONS FOR ANCIENT CITIES
http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/lamentations.htm
On Lamentations...
Lamentation for the City of Eridu
Lamentation for the City Nippur
Lamentation for the City of Ur
Lamentation for Turin and Sumer
Lament for Unug
The Sumerian civilization dwindled approximately 3500 years ago, replaced by peoples from the North and East; a replacement that was often the result of war. There are several lament texts that have been found, each mourning the destruction of a different Sumerian city. These texts are all from the same time period, causing one to wonder if the laments are simply reflections of humans at war, or truly those of wars of the Gods themselves - quarreling over their own ideologies.
“the goddess of Ur, Ningal, tells how she suffered under her sense of coming doom.”
When I was grieving for that day of storm,
that day of storm, destined for me, laid upon me, heavy with tears,
that day of storm, destined for me, laid upon me heavy with tears, on me, the queen.
Though I was trembling for that day of storm,
that day of storm destined for me —
I could not flee before that day’s fatality.
And of a sudden I espied no happy days within my reign, no happy days within my reign.
Though I would tremble for that night,
that night of cruel weeping destined for me,
I could not flee before that night’s fatality.
Dread of the storm’s floodlike destruction weighed on me,
and of a sudden on my couch at night, upon my couch at night no dreams were granted me.
And of a sudden on my couch oblivion, upon my couch oblivion was not granted.
Because (this) bitter anguish had been destined for my land —
as the cow to the (mired) calf — even had I come to help it on the ground,
I could not have pulled my people back out of the mire.
Because (this) bitter dolor had been destined for my city,
even if I, birdlike, had stretched my wings,
and, (like a bird), flown to my city,
yet my city would have been destroyed on its foundation,
yet Ur would have perished where it lay.
Because that day of storm had raised its hand,
and even had I screamed out loud and cried; “Turn back, O day of storm, (turn) to (thy) desert,”
the breast of that storm would not have been lifted from me.
Then verily, to the assembly, where the crowd had not yet risen,
while the Anunnaki, binding themselves (to uphold the decision), were still seated,
I dragged my feet and I stretched out my arms,
truly I shed my tears in front of An.
Truly I myself mourned in front of Enlil:
“May my city not be destroyed!” I said indeed to them.
“May Ur not be destroyed!” I said indeed to them.
“And may its people not be killed!” I said indeed to them.
But An never bent towards those words,
and Enlil never with an, “It is pleasing, so be it!” did soothe my heart.
(Behold,) they gave instruction that the city be destroyed,
(behold,) they gave instruction that Ur be destroyed,
and as its destiny decreed that its inhabitants be killed.
Enlil called the storm. The people mourn.
Winds of abundance he took from the land. The people mourn.
Bood winds he took away from Sumer. the people mourn.
Deputed evil winds. The people mourn.
Entrusted them to Kingaluda, tender of storms.
He called the storm that annihilates the land. The people mourn.
He called disastrous winds. The people mourn.
Enlil — choosing Gibil as his helper —
called the (great) hurricane of heaven. The people mourn.
The (blinding) hurricane howling across the skies — the people mourn —
the tempest unsubduable like breaks through levees,
beats down upon, devours the city’s ships,
(all these) he gathered at the base of heaven. The people mourn.
(Great) fires he lit that heralded the storm. The people mourn.
And lit on either flank of furious winds the searing heat of the desert.
Like flaming heat of noon this fire scorched.
The storm ordered by Enlil in hate, the storm which wears away the country,
covered Ur like a cloth, veiled it like a linen sheet.
On that day did the storm leave the city; that city was a ruin.
O father Nanna, that town was left a ruin. The people mourn.
On that day did the storm leave the country. The people mourn.
Its people(’s corpses), not potsherds,
littered the approaches.
The walls were gaping;
the high gates, the roads,
were piled with dead.
In the wide streets, where feasting crowds (once) gathered, jumbled they lay.
In all the streets and roadways bodies lay.
In open fields that used to fill with dancers,
the people lay in heaps.
The country’s blood now filled its holes, like metal in a mold;
bodies dissolved — like butter left in the sun.
(Nannar, god of the Moon and spouse of Ningal, appeals to his father, Enlil)
O my father who engendered me! What has my city done to you? Why have you turned away from it?
O Enlil! What has my city done to you? Why have you turned away from it?
The ship of first fruits no longer brings first fruits to the engendering father,
no longer goes in to Enlil in Nippur with your bread and food portions!
......................................................
O my father who engendered me! Fold again into your arms my city from its loneliness!
O Enlil! Fold again my Ur into your arms from its loneliness!
Fold again my (temple) Ekishnugal into your arms from its loneliness!
Let renown emerge for you in Ur! Let the people expand for you:
let the ways of Sumer, which have been destroyed,
be restored for you!
Enlil answered his son Suen (saying):
“The heart of the wasted city is weeping, reeds (for flutes) of lament grow therein,
its heart is weeping, reeds (for flutes) of lament grow therein,
its people spend the day in weeping.
O noble Nanna, be thou (concerned) about yourself, what truck have you with tears?
There is no revoking a verdict, a decree of the assembly,
a command of An and Enlil is not known ever to have been changed.
Ur was verily granted a kingship — a lasting term it was not granted.
From days of yore when the country was first settled, to where it has now proceeded,
Who ever saw a term of office completed?
Its kingship, its term of office, has been uprooted. It must worry.
(You) my Nanna, do you not worry! Leave your city!”
I did not see this comment last year, but have an interesting little tidbit to add regarding the decline of Rome and also our current situation.
The triumvirate of Caesar, Pompey, Sulla had an another interesting thread. Sulla was in his early fifties and feeling the start of decline. He was in charge of the eastern part of the empire, so he thought it would really be a feather in his cap to conquer further to the east like Alexander. He decided to go up against the Parthians, which I think was in the area of Iran and perhaps part of Afghanistan. He, his son, and his army were totally destroyed, but his young lieutenant Cassius managed to withdraw with about 10,000 troops back to Syria, which saved Syria from rising up against Rome.
Remember Cassius, “Yon Cassius hath a lean and hungry look, he thinks too much, such men are dangerous.” Will Shakespeare. At any rate, years later Cassius was a leader in the plot which killed Caesar, for “too much ambition.” Guess what Caesar’s too much ambition actually was. He wanted to go conquer the Parthians to avenge Rome’s good name. My take: beware all politicians who think that trying to conquer the Parthians, or their descendents, is a good idea. At any rate, check out Sulla and his campaign, a fascinating story of pride and failure.
But the rest of what you wrote of Crassus losing the battle of Carrhae (Harran -- the same place Abraham went to from Ur)
the Romans lost again in 259 to Shapur II of the Persian Sassanid empire. But between that time Trajan had destroyed the Parthian empire
Crassus, of course, that’s what happens when 70 year olds make comments after midnight. Interesting tidbit, the Parthians carried a quiver with about 70 arrows. Could lay down such a barrage that it destroyed advancing troops. Kind of what the English longbow did at Crecy(?). Hope I got that right. ;-)
:’)
The Emperor Trajan pounded the crap out of the Parthians (pro-Persian fanatics in here in 5, 4, 3...) and annexed the short-lived province of Mesopotamia. Unfortunately he died right after, and equally unfortunately his successor was the alleged adopted son, the flamer Hadrian. Hadrian wasn’t a military leader, and had to be talked out of withdrawing from Dacia (which was Trajan’s and Rome’s biggest-ever payday); he did pull back behind certain geographical features and the Roman Empire spent the following centuries cowering behind his arbitrary borders.
IOW, Crassus and a handful of others just didn’t know that the hell they were doing when they headed east. In eastern Anatolia, Rome tried maintaining trade links into Parthia and a peaceful border by supporting various buffer states. The arid terrain in what is now Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia served as a natural barrier for both empires. Rome’s trade with India was by sea, and the ships it built for that were huge, and sailed in convoys, following the monsoon winds in and out.
Enkidu, read the “Epic of Gilgamesh” obviously you haven’t, to many years with the Post Office I think.
Thanks Cronos!
So, Earth, Moon, Venus, a small planetoid that also tracks Earth's orbit, then Venus' orbit.
So, there's your basic outline of the Epic of Gilgemesh.
The original observations of this object moving to Venus orbit were made in ancient Sumer by Sumerian astronomers. The Epic of Gilgimesh is about Earth, Moon, Venus, a planetoid ~ and a daughter of Venus (Ishtar)
Yeah, I"ve read that epic a lot ever since the fact came out the guys who'd made the observations were part of the civilization that created the epic.
It's a meme created to help the astronomers remember what they'd seen ~ just right there at the time writing was first being developed I"m sure they were concerned that it might not last.
So, what's your question? Why is Inkydoo hairy? What are these animals plays with that no longer want to play with him after he's messed around with the Daughter of Ishtar? Does this body actually consist of a fairly large asteroid AND a flock of smaller ones ~ and just stray pieces of rock picked up in space?
This particular body may be in a highly synchronous orbit involving Earth, the Moon and Venus ~ he moves back and forth between the two orbits, so why not do the moving with some degree of regularity. And, maybe it comes between the Earth and the Moon on its last pass as it takes off for Venus ~ I can see the Moon picking up some of the orbital momentum to slow it down to drop it into Venus orbit for a time.
Pretend you are on the ground in Sumer and a large object comes between you and the Moon and over a period of hours, or maybe days (call Roberta Humphreys to compute the orbits on this one) and you see this play out ~ and let's say some of the associated junk works its way into Earth's atmosphere and goes out in a huge blaze moving off to the West and smacks into a mountain in Bohemia.
I"d think that would be noticed.
But Biden is only the horse’s hind quarters ~
I don't know about Parthian battle tactics besides the "Parthian shot".
right about the pounding, wrong about the 'short-lived' part. Mesopotamia was on and off a Roman province -- with Carrhae, Nisibitis etc. being sometimes Roman, sometimes Persian
a better successor to Trainus would have pushed further to make all of Persia part of the Roman Empire and pushed north
But remember that north of Persia were the various tribes -- one of which was the Parthian, then there were other Indo-European/Iranic tribes and the Turkic-Mongols like Uighar, Kazarians, Cimmerians etc. were moving in. Hadrian's idea of using natural areas as boundaries was not a bad idea. Rome fell to Germanics because it didn't maintain those boundaries
the usage of rivers, mountains etc. made perfect sense until aerial war and even now it still makes sense -- the US and UK have an easier job of defence because they control the seas around them.
Crassus did know what he was doing -- he wanted to prove his position as part of the triumvirate and get some booty to give to his supporters. he failed.
the point about buffer states is also very true and one that if one reads history always makes sense -- remove the buffer state and it leads to horrific war that destroys the two big guys: cases in point:
1. Armenia providing the buffer state between Rome and Sassanid Persia
2. The various Canaanite states providing a buffer between the Hittites and Egypt
3. Poland-Lithuania as the buffer state in the 1700s between Austria and Russia
4. Tibet as the buffer state between India and China
5. Afghanistan under its kings between Tsarist Russia and the British South-Asia Empire.
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