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To: RushingWater
One of the most significant corruptions was the concept of original sin, the idea that we are born sinful

The concept pre-dated those two by a couple thousand years; Ps 51:5. Paul in Romans 5:12-14 discusses it as well.

11 posted on 01/25/2015 4:40:07 PM PST by xone
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To: xone
The concept pre-dated those two by a couple thousand years; Ps 51:5. Paul in Romans 5:12-14 discusses it as well.

Read Ps 51:5 in the KJV, NASB vs the NIV. They are saying different things, it appears the NIV is a biased translation in this verse. King David was repenting fully of his sin, why would he switch the blame to God in his confession? There is indication that David was conceived out of wedlock. He has 2 half sisters who were daughters of Nahash and not Jesse and he was not in the first presentation of Jesse sons when Samuel requested his sons appear.
Rom 5:12 states "because all sinned" implying individuals personally sinning themselves, not sin from birth.
12 posted on 01/25/2015 5:06:42 PM PST by RushingWater
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To: xone; RushingWater; SunkenCiv; no-to-illegals; All

I did some more checking on ancient heresies and discovered that several were very much involved with the original sin controversy. This list was written by a man who is apparently of the Roman Catholic belief, and some of his descriptions may reflect a slight bias.
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/kwhthd_ancntheresies_july05.asp

The above site did not mention the Albigensian Heresy which was fought in the 1200s. It has also been called a Crusade, but has nothing to do with the Holy Lands crusades, except as a military learning experience. See this link which does a nice job of listing the important philosophical and historical points.
http://www.the-orb.net/textbooks/crusade/albig.html

I found this very well designed site listing war related death tolls for many different wars worldwide. Multiple references/authors are listed for each topic with their estimates for direct war killing and starvation/disease deaths. For the Albigensian my guess after looking at the various figures is 1/2 to a million, with around 5,000 executed by trial of the Inquisition.
http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm

Conclusions: Wars are terrible things. The European religious war period of from 1559-1715 was extremely fatal. No wonder our founders kept religion out of the Constitution. The Muslim world is undergoing a similar period of sectarian warfare (Sunni vs Shia) and would do well to learn the lessons of history regarding religious wars.


15 posted on 01/25/2015 11:51:54 PM PST by gleeaikin
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