Star Wars sucks. There, we said it.

Maclean's ^ | June 19, 2015 | Jaime Weinman

[minnesota_bound]

Now start a tread on the Hobbits! : )

[ClearCase_guy]

Bagginses! We hates it, Precious!

[Dr. Sivana]

So Jews are unwelcome in conservatism.

I stated those of no Faith. Jews have a Faith, largely with a great overlap of the moral underpinnings as Christianity. You would do well to cut the nonsense with that snarky "interesting" business.

Jonah Goldberg wrote an excellent article the other day, where he explores what conservatism means. His best quotation (from Yuval Levin) described conservatism

To my mind, conservatism is gratitude. Conservatives tend to begin from gratitude for what is good and what works in our society and then strive to build on it, while liberals tend to begin from outrage at what is bad and broken and seek to uproot it.

, that is compatible with Christianity, Judaism and William F. Buckley, but not so much with Atheism, Occultism, or Ayn Rand. Kirk's longer definition, earlier in the article, even less so. (Requires belief in a transcendent order).

[minnesota_bound]

Skywalker arrested, bad bad kid
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3133544/Retired-child-actor-played-Anakin-Skywalker-Star-Wars-Phantom-Menace-arrested-car-chase-ended-plowed-vehicle-tree.html

[Admin Moderator]

Get off this thread.

[Caipirabob]

“But not LeBouf”

Please, no. I’d rather see jar-jar play Jones than LeBouf.

[FredZarguna]

You would do well not to assume you know what other people believe.

The point was the the myth of [G]god[s] with children, virgin births, and all manner of other stories are common in the mythology of mankind -- and they are hardly "all but forgotten." Only an ignoramus doesn't know the story of Athena springing, fully formed, from the mind of Zeus, or of Perseus born to a virgin from a shower of gold.

That myths common on Earth might be repeated in galaxies long ago and far away is not in the least bit blasphemous. It is, as J.R.R. Tolkien would have said, "one of the ingredients in the pot."

Jews believe something. One of the things they believe is that the idea of [G]god[s] having children by virgin birth was common in the ancient, pagan world. It is one of their reasons for rejecting Christianity, and is hardly "all but forgotten."

[odds]

Lol

[Dr. Sivana]

My point was not at all touched by your point. My point being that myths having some elements in common does not mean that all events that have that element is a myth. I am aware of the Greek/Roman myth about Athena, etc. But no one to my knowledge, holds them today, which is part of the reason we can use these characters as symbols and brand names. There might be a stray Zoroastrian around, if one should pop n the board I will try not to offend him needlessly.

You describe yourself as a skeptic on religious matters in your well done profile. I am not. We are different kinds of conservatives, and you are certainly no newbie and you offer many contributnh posts. I am going to continue offering my opinion of what constitutes borderline blashemy, and will not take a correction from someone who offers a specious argument about ancient, all but forgotten myths as if they were 1:1 comparable. Frankly, you should be indifferent to it.

[odds]

Not Zoroaster but a pre-zoroastrian pagan deity (sun-god) Mithra who was believed to be born of a virgin. Often people, non-zoroastrians, confuse the two & think they’re the same. The story about Mithra is mythology & lore. I’m yet to meet a practicing zoroastrian who thinks zoroaster was born to a virgin.

[FredZarguna]

But according to later tradition, Zoroaster's mother, Dughdova, was a virgin when she conceived Zoroaster by a shaft of light. [Egyptian mythology, Lorenz, London, 2000]

Mithra is kind of a problem, because he enters Zoroastrianism later and as an ahura, so as far as Zoroastrianism is concerned, Mithra's "predating" may be chronologically true in another tradition, but it is logically dubious. I certainly was not confusing the two. I'm not aware that in the Indric tradition he was anything but a god ... not born of a virgin. The Greek and Roman variations, which most people mean when they refer to Mithraism were all over the place.

None of this matters to my original point. Human mythology is full of these stories. You can take the position that C.S. Lewis did: that God inspired these ideas all over the ancient world in order to "prep the landing zone" for Jesus Christ, or that, created in His Image we intuitively would anticipate such a thing in the collective unconscious, or that Christians simply expropriated these elements from existing traditions.

Whatever the case, there is nothing blasphemous about Lucas putting this story element from the common religious tradition of mankind in Star Wars. He doesn't claim, for example, that after three days Darth Vader rose from the dead in fulfillment of the scriptures. J.J. Abrams might. But we shall see...

[odds]

I do agree with you that human mythology, and there is no blasphemy involved in Star Wars; that’s my view too.

To expand on my previous points:

Haven’t read the source you cite, though the title “Egyptian mythology” makes me wonder. I was referring to purely Iranian or Aryan tradition, not “Egyptian mythology”.

Zoroaster based on what is available historically, and in the Gathas (the language used in those old hymns), is most definitely believed, by most scholars who have studied him & the Gathas, to be ethnically of Aryan origins (in his case related to Iran, or more specifically today’s Tajikistan, not Egypt or even India).

There is no current or traditional belief, among practicing Zoroastrian-Iranians that Zoroaster’s mother was literally a virgin, or that he was conceived by a shaft of light.

Interestingly, the word “virgin” that we use in English, in Z tradition & old Persian is usually used to indicate ‘purity’ (not necessarily & only physical purity, but also spiritually).

If by Indric you mean related to India or Hindus, Zoroaster didn’t gain popularity in India during his time. The Zoroastrian-Parsees who live in India immigrated there post Islamic invasion of Iran. They are originally Persians, not Indians.

Mithra was An Aryan god/deity. Indians are considered Aryans ethnically as well; but, their traditions differ in many ways to those of Zoroastrian-Iranians, and Hindus still have & worship many gods.

In Iranian and Zoroastrian traditions, Mithra is not the same as “Ahura Mazda”. Mithra or Mitra (also known in Persian as “Mehr”) was a sun-god. Ahura Mazda has the main attribute of Wisdom. Zoroaster was teaching and preaching eschatological monotheism (Ahura Mazda), and cosmogonic dualism (good vs evil, or light vs. darkness).

[FredZarguna]

My reference to the Indric tradition was to Mithra, not Zoroaster.

[odds]

Yes, understood after reading your previous post again.

This isn’t the thread for it, though it is all very fascinating, so let me add a final explanation.

In both Indic (vedic) and Iranian traditions, Mithra is not only known as the sun-god, but also represents ‘contracts & treaties’. The other name for mithra (mitra) being “mehr” in persian means ‘friendship or mercy’ among warriors in particular. It’s the same pre-zoroastrian deity.

Mithra (mitra/mehr) later, post-zoroaster, became known as a ‘saint’ or ‘angel’ in the Zoroastrian scripture. He was seen as the patron saint of warriors/soldiers, a guardian & ‘a messenger’ too if you will.

To date, the Zs don’t worship fire, but fire symbolically represents purity.

I’d say the closest analogy to Mithra or Mehr, for specific qualities associated with him (sun, fire, positive energy, protection), in Christian Angelology, and I believe in Judaism too, is Archangel St Michael.

So, although neither Mithraism nor Zoroastrianism are classified as Abrahamic religions, they influenced each other in some core beliefs at least.

[Grateful2God]

LOL!

[Grateful2God]

I went to see 2001, with some friends, when I was a teenager. IMHO, it stunk. I didn't mind the music, but the plot made no sense to me and the visual effects made me feel like I did before I'd get carsick. I walked out into the lobby and chatted with one of the ushers until the thing was over.

I like Star Wars although I have to agree that Anakin having no Dad made me a bit uncomfortable, too. And, I got upset that Lucas sold out to Disney- the evil empire- for the last trilogy. And I cry at the end when Luke sees his Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-wan again. Which is why I've never had the nerve to watch, "Old Yeller!" 😭 (((sniffle)))

[Grateful2God]

To a Christian, especially a Catholic, that Virgin Birth is not a myth. It’s a reality that our present society likes to step on, so we get a little wary. That part of the story made me kind of uncomfortable, too... As a whole though, I think there are a lot of things that are good in there- I like to watch them when they’re on- and Lando turned out to be a hero! Guess I’m a bit of a nerd myself...

[Grateful2God]

***There were also some “Planet of the Apes” gum-cards, ***

I got a ton of those for Halloween that year. I wish I had them now- bet they'd be worth something! Back then, it was probably a nickel...

[otness_e]

Funny you should say that, because the first Star Wars movie actually WAS promoting Marxism. Don’t forget, George Lucas planned to have Star Wars be an allegorical criticism to American involvement in the Vietnam War since at LEAST 1973, and specifically envisioned the Empire as being us Americans, and the Rebel Alliance as the Vietcong. George Lucas made this very clear, and in case you, for understandable reasons, don’t believe him any more than the boy who cried wolf, his friends can back that up.