Posted on 10/08/2017 11:19:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The Las Vegas shooter who killed 59 people and injured 515 in the largest mass shooting in American history Sunday night was "well-trained," talk show radio host Michael Savage said on his show Monday, per The Daily Caller.
"This guy was well-trained, something is wrong with the picture," Savage said after questioning why it took 72 minutes for the police to arrive and shoot 64-year-old Stephen Paddock.
He added, "There's more questions than answers. This is a new 9/11 in America and the questions will grow all week – very embarrassing and very difficult questions we are now back to where we were years and years ago. This guy was well-trained, something is wrong with the picture."(continued)
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
I’d like to know who trained this guy. Any ideas?
Did the writer make a typo re how long Savage said it took the police to arrive at the scene? It was “12” minutes, not “72”.
Forgive me for asking, but what military training does this “Savage” guy have to establish any say in this?
Where did this training show? One thing where it might be is that I have heard these bump stocks are cumbersome, but are they really so hard to get a decent rate of fire out of considering that he didn’t have to bother with aiming and only had to concentrate with the rhythm.
I don’t know if these videos are real, but I have seen people using just rubber band to shoot pseudo full-auto.
The reported range is 1,100 ft. I estimated beforehand 1,250. From that distance, the shooter must have had a well-calibrated site to avoid hitting vehicles on the LV blvd. Just saying — as the saying goes...
Don’t recognize the scene.
Well I am glad you don’t think training is necessary. Just any shit head can do what he did.
I don’t believe he has any. Don’t these people realize that 10 year old Afghan and Iraqi boys use AK-47s every day?
One thing that I really like about Free republic is the amazing incisiveness and the vast quantity of thoughtful and informed analysis and information about a multiplicity of subjects. However, I am EXTREMELY disappointed about much of what has been said of the the bumpfire stock controversy. Much of it sounds has though it was promulgated by the ignorant gun grabbing left.
I am a 2 tour Vietnam infantry combat veteran, and a member of the Illinois National guard for 26 years. I served in a Military police battalion has a platoon sergeant and an operations sergeant. I was a certified Illinois State Police Firearms and Defensive tactics instructor, and a member of Special Reaction and SWAT teams. I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through automatic weapons of all types, belt and magazine fed, tripod and shoulder mounted, ranging from .45 caliber M-3 sub machine guns up to M2A1 40 mm twin anti-aircraft guns mounted on an M-42 self propelled anti-aircraft gun.
I am retired and spend one day a month on the rifle range shooting my AR-15 rifles. When this slide fire device was first introduced, the low cost and novelty intrigued me and I purchased one. It was a bit awkward to use at first, but in one afternoon, after a bit of practice I was able to get 90% of any length burst on a man sized target at 75 yards, which is close to the normal engagement ranges for truly effective full auto fire from shoulder mounted weapons. It is not as useful has a true selective fire assault rifle since it requires two hands to employ, but it DOES have some measure of limited tactical utility for anyone who practices with it. I never really considered this item to be a true tactical instrument, but I did appreciate the ingenuity and thought that went into turning “bump fire’ into almost as accurate a technique has I could use with a true select fire assault rifle.
In Las Vegas, this monster had the effective use of plunging frontal, oblique and flanking enfilade fire with a significant beaten zone against an area sized target of 25,000 people. That is what automatic weapons fire is made for. What would normally limit the weapon is the lack of a quick change barrel on an AR-15 when it begins to overheat. That problem was solved by using multiple weapons. In short it was hard for him not to miss.
Experts who have decried the effectiveness of full auto fire from assault rifles and other shoulder fired weapons are largely correct. Semi-auto fire is usually most desired and superior, and includes the advantages of duration of sustained fire to prevent barrel overheating and enhances an ammo expenditure and accuracy standpoint. Auto fire in an assault rifle has the following tactical utility, in the final and close in (100 meters or less) stages of an assault, to gain initial fire superiority, to break contact, particularly has a counter ambush technique, when firing along final protective lines when a perimeter is in danger of being overrun, and to support by fire the maneuver tactics of another element. Leaders should be responsible to control the fire of their subordinates to maintain fire discipline, but in those roles that I have outlined, full auto fire is very useful indeed.
The battle has been joined. The anti-gun hysterics are in full cry. They will never be satisfied until they achieve near total firearm confiscation. The genie is out of the bottle. You cannot stop psychopaths employing bump fire methods unless you can repeal the laws of Newtonian physics. I realize that some sort of regulation will ensue in the wake of this horrific atrocity. But I don’t like it one damn bit.
If they do enact this ban, then any so called “compromise” by repealing the 1986 Hughes Act which caused the prices of full auto weapons to skyrocket. There is NO REASON for a legally transferable M-16 to cost over 50,000 dollars. You can be assured that any such owner will be thoroughly vetted by the background check that would be required to purchase one.
Did Savage say different? Not that it matters all that much, perhaps, other than if he did say 72 minutes for police to arrive, that is just one more piece of information that is reasonably refuted elsewhere...the "72 minutes" being how long it was until it was announced that they had what they thought was a lone gunman and he was dead, iirc.
12 minutes to get there, and into the building ...and something like 20 minutes (at the most?) after the shooting first began for them to find and enter the room the shooter was in. Right?
That's not too long of time, specially if the guy has stopped shooting ten minutes or so (a bit less according to some accounts) after beginning, and so there was no more ongoing noise to help narrow down precisely where he was, and some pressure off for needing stop whoever it was right that minute. Even then, the PD needed to exercise caution upon final approach (and take care to not hurt anybody who didn't need hurting). Who could fault them for that? I do not.
CIA
It takes little skill to effectively “spray and pray”, particularly when there are 20,000 targets packed closely together in the field of fire.
They're quite real.
In fact, you can get full-auto rates of fire without even a rubber band. All you need is the belt loop on your pants and a little practice.
It's simply a matter of physics and mechanics.
That's why any bans which end up coming out of this will be strictly window dressing, and serve no practical purpose.
I'm hoping—since such symbolic bans seem nearly inevitable—that the gun rights crowd will be able to get something like national concealed carry reciprocity and/or "shall issue" permit policies implemented as a "trade off" for the support of this "gun control" legislation by elements of the "gun lobby".
This situation—when considered in its practical ramifications—might actually end up benefiting gun owners more than it does the authoritarian Left—presuming, of course, that the GOPe doesn't sabotage things, as is their wont...
Now we know he wasn’t shooting into the crowd for 72 minutes, more like 10 or 12. And I see no signs of a high skill level or training.
His target was roughly the size and shape of a Walmart. A very rough calculation I made was that he was on target if he could hold 500+ minutes of angle.
An actual highly skilled operator going semi auto could have probably killed way more. I enjoy Savage, but he really got off in the weeds on this one. Way over his head in shooting and it shows.
Your language aside, yes, about any poophead could do what he did after an afternoon or two in the desert.
The marksmanship was keeping it in minute of Walmart.
No special skill was demonstrated.
I think you or I could’ve killed more people in that time period, just from familiarity and experience. And I haven’t held an M-16 since 1988 when I left airport security to work at the unemployment office since it paid better and was day shift.
I almost hate to say it lest we give anyone any ideas. I don’t know the exact numbers, but if you could swap off for fresh rifles, already loaded with very large mags in the 60-100 round sides... Id like to see it tested, but I bet you could get off 70-75% of the rounds he did, and they should be way better aimed.
And I’m not talking about precision shooting. Just rapid aiming and squeezing.
The gun grabbers are falling straight into the “careful what you wish for zone”.
As an example, Orlando, Aurora, Fort Hood were all semi auto. All of them basically exhausted their ammo and available targets.
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