Posted on 06/14/2011 11:03:45 AM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing
I recently got into a discussion about free trade in which the other person was absolutely convinced that free trade destroyed the british empire. Which makes no sense. Who here remembers the post ww2 german years and the Wirtschaftswunder? As Reagan noted at the Brandenberg gate,(link below) free trade was an important part of the Wirtschaftswunder.
Now, onto the flip side. Big government. It destroys everything. It destroyed the roman empire. Yes, the nazis were big government. Big government is currently destroying the United States under Barack Hussein Obama.(Mmm! Mmm! MMMM!!!)
Now, the free trade doom and gloomers will routinely point to NAFTA, yet they can't point to a specific economic calamity since the passage of NAFTA. They will usually point to the NAFTA super highway. And things such as the trans-texas corridor are exactly the reasons why I don't like NAFTA. But the TTC isn't free trade. That's transnationalism. I oppose transnationalism, and that's why I don't like NAFTA.
Anyways, back to britain. How many of you have read Adam Smith's "The Wealth Of Nations"? At numerous times, Smith details the insane regulations placed upon society by the king when it comes to wool and all sorts of other things. Britain was an empire. By definition, big government.
Great nations are always built upon trade. The egyptians, the chinese(Several times) the british themselves, and even us, the United States. Free trade increases trade. To think that more trade destroys a society is insanity.
In West Germany and here in Berlin, there took place an economic miracle, the Wirtschaftswunder. Adenauer, Erhard, Reuter, and other leaders understood the practical importance of liberty -- that just as truth can flourish only when the journalist is given freedom of speech, so prosperity can come about only when the farmer and businessman enjoy economic freedom. The German leaders -- the German leaders reduced tariffs, expanded free trade, lowered taxes. From 1950 to 1960 alone, the standard of living in West Germany and Berlin doubled.
Free trade destroyed the British Empire? Hello, they were mercantilist.
And yes, I’ve read The Wealth of Nations cover to cover.
It was Big Government—or more to the point—socialism and an attempt to give the people more and more stuff out of the public treasury. A bit of public sharing is good—but when it reaches a tipping point it topples the whole structure. Governments can’t be all things to all people—why? people will take advantage and grab for as much as possible—this is the poison of democracy and one that has killed many a nation state and republic over the centuries. Its about balance of power. We are way out of balance as is most of the west.
It seems oh so convenient to blame everything on Free Trade these days.
Offshoring ? Recession ? Blame free trade!
Clement Attlee.
So called Free Trade has contributed to the ruin of the American economy. Industry after industry simply gone. Millions in manufacturing jobs gone merely to satisfy a bunch of cosmopolitan fanatics bemused by an 18th century theory.
It was emigration. The best and brightest crossed the pond and the rest is history.
The British Empire was doomed the moment the king lost the power to lop off heads!
The decline of Rome also reflected, to a major extent, a genetic deterioration, caused in part by the failure of the original Roman stock to reproduce their numbers. By the fall, they were estimated to be down to 10% of the population. (One quite plausible theory as to why, is that the Roman upper-classes stored their food and wine in lead vessels, while the lower classes, often of foreign origin, stored theirs in earthenware. Lead poisoning can lead to sterility.)
This is not to say that paternalistic Government, which taxes the productive to pay for the less productive, does not contribute to such declines. If you look closer to home, the effect of the Welfare State on the gene pool has been horrendous. Successful Americans' birthrate has fallen to a very low rate, while the subsidized births of those dependent upon Welfare have soared. You can see the immediate effect in the relatively declining school performance over the past two generations.
Whelching the Jewish People on the Balfour Declareation in the mid-40s was the start of the British Empire’s RAPID decline. G*D will ALWAYS take care of his chosen.
Who was buying all those excess VW’s and Leica Camera’s? US Consumers? Free Trade was a good deal for both sides. Germany got an economic jumpstart while the US got a stable West German Government and a staunch ally. For the US it was a “cost of empire”. Those costs have long since exceeded the benefit as Germany has been pursuing their own foreign policy and is often at cross-purpose with US interests.
Now we are bombing Libya in the name of NATO. I’d say the tail has begun waiving the dog.
Free trade is moronic.
The United States didn’t overtake every major industrialized country in Europe in the 19th and early 20th century because of free trade.
There was a time when the entire federal government was financed by tariffs and domestic, narrowly targeted excise taxes.
Free trade has been good for other countries, because the US unilaterally lowered its tariffs while they raised theirs and other non-tariff barriers against us.
China, India and Brazil, as well as many other developing countries, are booming because Americans are idiots and will unilaterally disarm against foreigners. They got rich on the backs of the American consumer while discriminating against us.
And no, they are not more capitalistic than the United States, despite the misguided free traitor rhetoric around here.
It was over-regulation and stifling taxation that drove the brain drain out of Britain.
I would just like to point out that “free trade” is not the same thing as “free international trade”. We need free trade internally as well as externally, and that includes a balance of taxes and unfunded mandates between the two.
The manufacturers in China have fewer taxes and unfunded mandates then our domestic manufactures do, therefore their manufacturers will beat us every time.
I am for fewer domestic taxes and unfunded mandates. Perhaps there a some (few!) domestic unfunded mandates that are good, and perhaps we should tax incoming goods to equalize these, and spend the income on behalf of the source economy.
The best thing, of course, would be to ruthlessly reduce all wealth redistributing functions of our government.
bkmk
What a coincidence. I am on page 153 of The Decline and Fall of the British Empire 1781-1997. The author is Piers Brendon, whom I had never heard of. The book is fascinating so far. He has the decline starting when Britain lost the first of its’ colonies, The United States.
How do you know this is true? Have you even been to China?
You should go to China sometime.
Most people who work at factories get free room, board and medical care. They have dormitories, cafeterias and health clinics on site. And the workers send their checks home to their villages because of all the extra cash they have that isn’t spent on the basics.
And taxes and regulations can be overlooked because all the factory owner has to do is bribe the local officials, which is cheaper than complying.
You are a dreamer if you think foreign countries don’t have tax and regulatory burdens, especially against foreigners, who get treated differently than the domestics.
“The manufacturers in China have fewer taxes and unfunded mandates then our domestic manufactures do, therefore their manufacturers will beat us every time.”
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