Posted on 12/07/2018 12:53:47 PM PST by fugazi
As Japanese pilots returned to their carriers on 7 December 1941 following their attack on Pearl Harbor, they left behind a destroyed American fleet. American sailors, soldiers, and Marines enjoying a weekend in paradise were startled out of their bunks by the sounds of enemy planes overhead dropping bombs on a nation that – when they went to sleep the night before – had been at peace. In the space of a few hours on Sunday morning, dozens of ships and hundreds of planes were destroyed, seemingly wiping out our ability to strike back.
But what the Japanese war planners had no idea of when their warships silently slipped out of port on 26 November was the annihilation they would bring upon themselves when the United States used Pearl Harbor as a rallying cry, inspiring millions of young men to join the Armed Forces and avenge the 3,000-plus killed and wounded in the surprise attack. In the words of Admiral Hara Tadaichi, “We won a great tactical victory at Pearl Harbor and thereby lost the war.”
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The devastation at Pearl was a major setback to be sure. But by the time World War II began, the era of the battleship was already over. Yes, these massive armored ships were bristling with enough firepower to wipe an island off the map, firing projectiles that weighed as much as a Volkswagen over 20 miles with a high degree of accuracy. In their short-lived glory days at the beginning of the 20th Century, the battleship became a symbol of national prestige, and admirals dreamed of historic battleship-on-battleship engagements (there were just two such contests during the Pacific War). But the battleship quickly became a casualty to advancing technology once humans began arming aircraft.
Twenty years before the Pearl Harbor attack,
(Excerpt) Read more at victoryinstitute.net ...
Not much a victory at all.
Didn’t blown up the oil depot, didn’t destroy the submarine pen or the repair yard.
All three locations were targets that they planned on blowing to kingdom come. Had they turned Pearl harbor into a smoldering ruins the US was unable to use you could call it a victory.
In their early planning there was talk of a landing / occupation force. Dismissed as far too difficult, had they pulled that off - resounding victory.
The US would be trying the wage war from San Francisco.
Unfortunately, if Pearl Harbor happened today, a large segment of the population and the MSM would root for the Japanese — or at least try to excuse their behavior.
While we have the technology, I kind of doubt we have the will to use it and win a WWII like scenario today.
“We have awakened a sleeping giant.”
I agree.
I also think if the US government tried to reinstate the draft
a sizeable number of young men would refuse with plenty of legal action from their parents.
If the Japanese had followed through with that invasion plan, and had put 100,000 guys on the ground all over Hawaii, they’d have cleaned us out and would’ve been able to mop up the rest of the Pacific while digging in and fortifying Hawaii. We might’ve sued for peace or, if not, we wouldn’t have been able to mount an effective counterstrike for several more years. Those carriers would’ve been recalled to guard the coast, not fight at Coral Sea or Midway. Thank God for their inherent conservatism.
Contrast the thinking we experienced then to what happened after 911, which took as many lives as Pearl Harbor. The average American does not appreciate the life he/she has. I fear a similar event today would see the Participation Trophied Snowflakes fleeing to Canada rather than fighting to preserve what they’ve enjoyed. Snowflakes assume freedom can be gained by singing Kumbaya and capitalism, which gave the US citizen the highest standard of living on the planet, is a thing to be destroyed. I’m old enough not to fear the changes that are coming for myself, but I fear deeply for my kids and grandkids.
We didn’t have a plane-carried torpedo that could arm in shallow water like Pearl Harbor. So we didn’t think Japan would either.
The Japanese Long Lance torpedo was far superior to what we had for most of the war.
The battleships at Pearl were WWI vintage. They were too slow to run with the Fast Carrier Task Force that became our main strike arm in the Pacific War. The Iowa class battleships built during WWII could keep up.
IIRC Admiral Marc Mitscher figured out that running four fast carriers together as a group with their support vessels made them the most powerful naval weapon ever built. The carriers could mutually support, provide their own defense, and overpower any fleet of aircraft or surface ships that Japan was capable of sending out.
The biggest failure of all was allowing the US carrier fleet to remain intact. Fortunately, the carriers were not in Pearl Harbor at the time, out on exercises.
The Dolittle raid, and the battles of the Coral Sea and Midway proved the value of the carrier. After Midway, the Japanese navy no longer proved to be a threat to the continental US. It is amazing how quickly the US responded to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
The Type 93 had long range and a big warhead.
Downside was that it was fueled by pure oxygen and the tanks for it and torpedo reloads were stored amidships on Japanese destroyers and cruisers.
An interesting exercise is to go through the fates of Japanese warships on Combinedfleet.com and see just how many were blown up when fires amidships detonated thousands of pounds of explosives.
Never mind that one of their heavy cruisers was taken out in the Battle of Samar (Leyte Gulf) by a round from the 5” gun on one of the escort carriers detonating its torpedoes.
Makes the move to remove torpedoes from our cruisers look like a smart one, in retrospect.
“We have awakened a sleeping giant.”
= == = = == = = = =
The closing is the money part of the quote: “and filled him with a terrible resolve.” Resolve = vaporizing entire cities.
The logistics of supporting an invasion force of 100,000 to occupy the Hawaiian Islands would have been daunting to say the least. Invasion was never seriously considered. The objective was to cripple the US so they could continue their efforts in dominating Asia. There was an outside hope that the US would strike some sort of compromise.
The Japanese failure to destroy the Enterprise, Lexington, and Saratoga proved to be fatal.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/suzuya_t.htm
The heavy cruiser Suzuya blew up from a near miss by a bomb that detonated those marvelous torpedoes.
Not even a direct hit.
The Japs assumed at the time the US was still isolationist.
Pretty much most in the US knew war was inevitable after FDR’s “Arsenal of Democracy” speech the year before.
Good grief. Losing Pearl would not have been good but it wouldn’t have slowed down the massive production of new and much more powerful warships that was going on Stateside. The majority of ships at Pearl were already outdated and didn’t play a major role in defeating Japan.
Japan’s supply lines for an occupation of Hawaii would have been a nightmare for them to defend. American submarine wolfpacks would have isolated the islands. It’s very doubtful that Japan would have tried to extend themselves that far out into the Pacific. There’s a world of difference between attacking Pearl and occupying Hawaii.
And in his book, Yamamoto said we shouldn’t be doing it, said he was afraid they’ve just woke up a sleeping giant; also he said he’d give Japan eighteen months of victories and after that they’ll lose. Midway was the half-way point and we didn’t lose after that. (great to be home schooled in history).
Just remember, Pearl Harbor was only one of about 7 major attacks conducted by the Japanese in several days. Pearl Harbor might have been well remembered, but the more strategic impact was the Japanese essentially securing over half of the world’s surface at the end of the attack.
From the US West Coast to India, the Japanese had prevailed with their military force.
Combined with Nazi Germany (and Italy) there was a very serious threat that democracy would not prevail, but the Axis powers would control the globe within 10 years.
Unfortunately, there isn’t a force like the US in the world today, which can observe evil striking and seizing the world, and be given 1-3 years to tool up to counterattack.
It really is fascinating to think about that possibility, isn’t it?
They discarded the occupation idea fairly quickly but why I don’t know. The scenario you laid out is exactly what would have happened. How do you attack Japanese held Hawaii when your nearest base is over 2000 miles away. It’s not like the US could have pulled off their own surprise attack on Hawaii either.
I don’t know how we’d have been able to wage war against the Japanese in such a dire situation.
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