Indonesia has tried to become a secular state where Islam is the dominant religion - and has come closer to that than I ever expected them to. But they haven’t done it yet - especially in places like Aceh.
If we see the central government acting to reign in the fundamentalists in those provinces, then maybe they can make this work, and if they can, then, yes, I could see them as having real potential as a real partner to Australia in a lot of ways.
But until then, it has to be limited.
That doesn’t mean I want bad relationships with them - I certainly don’t - but caution is the only sensible approach for the moment.
I’m a retired officer of the ADF - RAN specifically - and I think military cooperation is one place where we probably can have a close relationship precisely because their military largely embraces secularism and takes Pancasila very seriously.
And whether our relationship with them becomes a partnership or not, I want Indonesia to be a healthy, secular, democratic society - for the sake of the Indonesians themselves.
It makes sense you’d want that for the people there, but they are an Islamic nation.
Some of us used to think that about Turkey. Be careful with this. There is no "moderate islam", or "radical islam" ... there is only islam. Your "moderate" mohammedan is one who just doesn't take it seriously. Right now. If he ever "gets religion", he'll be at your throat.
Naturalman1975 thanks very much for your insights.
Thank you for your service.
I think joint naval exercises with Indonesia near Natuna Island is something we Australians should consider. Do you agree? Or is the risk of offending China and suffering trade retaliation too great?
There are places like Aceh where the locals are allowed much more conservative practices in their own area than would be tolerated elsewhere. This is part of keeping these regions in the Republic. I dont think we can hope that all of Indonesia will become as moderate as Java. I think what we should focus on is that the dominant ethnic group, the Javanese, are moderate. Though on matters like gay marriage they are very conservative. We cant change that.
Hoping that Indonesia will become secular is not realistic. Religions are strong there. The muslims have the numbers to impose their will on the non muslim 10 percent but the majority of the muslims do not want to force their beliefs on to others.
When the police and armed services know they are dealing with terrorists, they shoot to kill. It doesnt happen often though.
Naturalman1975 thanks very much for your insights.
Thank you for your service.
I think joint naval exercises with Indonesia near Natuna Island is something we Australians should consider. Do you agree? Or is the risk of offending China and suffering trade retaliation too great?
There are places like Aceh where the locals are allowed much more conservative practices in their own area than would be tolerated elsewhere. This is part of keeping these regions in the Republic. I dont think we can hope that all of Indonesia will become as moderate as Java. I think what we should focus on is that the dominant ethnic group, the Javanese, are moderate. Though on matters like gay marriage they are very conservative. We cant change that.
Hoping that Indonesia will become secular is not realistic. Religions are strong there. The muslims have the numbers to impose their will on the non muslim 10 percent but the majority of the muslims do not want to force their beliefs on to others.
When the police and armed services know they are dealing with terrorists, they shoot to kill. It doesnt happen often though.