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Germany vs. America: Who Makes the Better AR-15 Rifle?
The National Interest ^ | September 8, 2019 | Charlie Gao

Posted on 09/08/2019 5:05:05 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This is a trick question. Far inferior round for anything but auto suppressive fire. So the answer is AR-10.


21 posted on 09/08/2019 7:53:31 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

;)

7.62x51 is a good round for sure. 5.56 isn’t bad with the right barrel, match bullet and sight, though.


22 posted on 09/08/2019 8:39:21 PM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I like this one from Windham Weaponry in 7.62x39, using a thermal scope to kill feral hogs.


23 posted on 09/08/2019 8:46:04 PM PDT by Dalberg-Acton
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To: MrEdd

FYI:
Mad Dog by far in the homeless community ...


24 posted on 09/08/2019 8:48:40 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: Paal Gulli

Agreed on pistons vs. direct impingement.

Four Reasons Why the Operating Rod AR-15 Might be the Worst Gun Idea Ever
https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/reasons-operating-rod-ar-15-worst-gun-idea/


25 posted on 09/08/2019 8:48:48 PM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

German citizens can’t buy an AR-15 made in America because of ITAR. Meanwhile we have them out like candy to the Palestinian Authority government, the Iraq government, Syrian rebels, etc...


26 posted on 09/08/2019 9:33:45 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Best AR platform IMO (hands-down) is LWRC piston system.

I've seen thousands of rounds go through many of their weapons in training and have a lot of 1st hand professional experience with them. I also own one.

Very, very few failures, they shoot beautifully and clean up very easily.

27 posted on 09/08/2019 10:48:28 PM PDT by AAABEST (NY/DC/LA media/political industrial complex DELENDA EST)
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To: HighSierra5

Pity, every screw I’ve ever had was wonderful.


28 posted on 09/09/2019 2:24:03 AM PDT by .44 Special (Tiamid Buarsh)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“The Germans over-engineer everything.”

Saw a documentary a while back about WWII German tanks. They were deadly when they were up and running however constantly broke down for that very reason. The documentary went on to state more german tanks were destroyed by their own crews while broken down in the field (to keep them from falling into the hands of the Allies) than Allied forces destroyed.


29 posted on 09/09/2019 4:49:25 AM PDT by V_TWIN
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To: familyop

5.56 has a 12% kill rate. After 100 yards, the power drops off significantly. It was made with the idea the m-16 was full auto and soldiers could carry more. Civilian ar 15s are not full auto, therefore they lose that capability from the start. I’ve seen enough bs to know when something is happening, I’m grabbing the m-14 heh. I do however hope the bad guys have ar15s heh.


30 posted on 09/09/2019 5:03:12 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: yarddog

22LR and 22 CF are not the same bore and groove dimensions. While 22LR shoots in a 22 CF barrel, it is undersized and not really very accurate. there are dedicated 22LR components ( barrels, action groups etc) that will make an AR platform about on par with a modern bolt 22LR match gun however, with appropriate sights/optics.


31 posted on 09/09/2019 7:18:05 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior

There is virtually no difference in bore diameter between the 22LR and the .223. Many times I suspect there is zero difference.

The real difference is most .22LR barrels have a 1 in 16 twist which over the last 150 years has been determined to be a good average.

My Colt H-Bar had a 1 in 7 twist. I would have guessed that would be too fast but in actual shooting it seemed to make no difference. On the other hand a .223 68 grain would tumble if fired in a 1 in 16 twist barrel.


32 posted on 09/09/2019 8:14:17 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: yarddog

Indeed, you are correct ref. twists- However, SAAMI indicates that the bore/ groove of the 22 CF is .219/.224 while the 22 RF is .217/.222

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2015-R2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

Pages 11-13 depict chamber/ bore dimensions of the 22 RF family, ( excepting the archaic 22 WRF and the newer 22 RFM) while other documents depict 22 CF as being as I stated.

Shooting a 22RF in a 22 CF barrel provides for a very loose ( almost nonexistent) fit and unless one buy specifically designed large diameter 22 RF ( yes, Lapua and some other European companies make them), your RF adapter is is great for short range/large target practice. That said, I killed myriads of squirrels with 22LR fired rom a Savage 24 22 RFM/410 combination gun.


33 posted on 09/09/2019 11:42:20 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Bulwyf
"5.56 has a 12% kill rate. After 100 yards, the power drops off significantly."

Those are limitations imposed on government issue soldiers with very little range time and no choices in loads, barrels or optics--limitations not suffered by handloading, butchering hillbillies. ;)

34 posted on 09/09/2019 12:23:27 PM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: Bulwyf

If I wanted to do well with accuracy and terminal ballistics on the cheap with something very common, a civilian load and rifle a little better than the following would do (especially the second paragraph under “Mk 262”).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_262#Mk_262

If I were going to spend some money and carry more weight, though, it would be on something between 6 and 7 mm.


35 posted on 09/09/2019 1:11:58 PM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: familyop

I do use the 77s, and they’ve done well. My buddie’s 16 inch barrel put rounds on steel at 1100 yards, but I far prefer my 6.5mms.


36 posted on 09/09/2019 4:06:36 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: familyop

Handloading, butchering hillbillies are also far more practiced and can usually do great shot placement, which matters heh.


37 posted on 09/09/2019 4:07:50 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf
"I do use the 77s, and they’ve done well. My buddie’s 16 inch barrel put rounds on steel at 1100 yards, but I far prefer my 6.5mms."

I like the 6.5mms more, too, honestly. Is that what you run in an AR-10? Only the relatively low costs of 5.56mm are keeping me away from 6.5mm. ...1100 yards: that's impressive! The best that I've seen others do with 80 gr. match in 5.56mm with slightly longer barrels is 800 yards. I haven't found a 5.56 recipe for good terminal ballistics or fairly consistent CNS accuracy much beyond 300 yards, but that seems sufficient.

6.5mm (or .308) from an AR-10 *will* do the job. Some of my old hillbilly friends would think I'm nuts for being a 5.56mm ballistics nerd. Most of them are very accomplished hunters, but most of them have simply derived some sort of satisfaction from hitting flies with sledgehammers, too (much like the Jethro character from the Beverly Hillbillies show). They weren't much into math except for windage and elevation. ;)

Don't mind my latest obsession, though. I'm on a minimalist kick. Even driving a 4-cylinder car lately. ;)

38 posted on 09/10/2019 2:55:16 AM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: Bulwyf

Good stuff for handloading nerds, BTW. Low cost, too.

Shooting Chrony chronographs
http://shootingchrony.com/index.htm


39 posted on 09/10/2019 3:09:12 AM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: familyop

I use a magnetospeed. The only complaint I have is changing rifles, sometimes you need to add or remove a shim. You can shoot groups, it’ll give you your average speed and a spread differential. I did that on some loads. Did 100 yards then put my numbers into strelok app (I know, cheating a bit), then I used those numbers and dialed to 1100 yards, and first round strike. Then I put 5 more on steel (18x18”). Was a 6” group (begara hmr).

I’m making a load for 143gr eld-x now.


40 posted on 09/10/2019 7:41:07 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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