Posted on 04/17/2021 1:38:28 PM PDT by Jacquerie
The 17A triggered a cascade of stunning downwind consequences, perhaps only second to the immediate post-Civil War amendments. As opposed to the 13th – 15th Amendments which reset society, the 17A reset our republican governing form. Overnight, the 17A transformed the Framers’ exquisite compound democratic/federal structure into a democratic form deadly to republics.1
Why the 17th Amendment? What enormous forces convinced the people, states, and congress to trade a proven, stable governing form for an unstable and dangerous system?
[snip]
Once the late 19th and early 20th century progressives took up the cause, the public soon embraced the notion that the solution to the ills of democracy was ever-more democracy.4
What were these perceived ills? In the decades following the Civil War, people gradually associated indirect election of senators with an outmoded, plutocratic Constitution. By contrast, many regarded direct election with reform, faith in the people, and progress.5 Progressives’ complaints fell into four broad categories: legislative deadlock, bribery/corruption, populism/progressivism, and political forces at the state level.
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I simply use Wilson as a date marker. It was the entire progressive movement at the time, which Wilson was a big part. I could go back to include T Roosevelt, but I rather demonize Wilson as it occurred during his presidency.
Go figure that a “progressive” like Wilson was our most racist President.
Your observation is correct. The 17th Amendment is the result of poisonous progressivism, but not Wilson. Wilson was not the protege of Harry Potter.
The 17th Amendment is due to the big government agitation of Theodore Roosevelt, who sent out his personal henchman Taft to get the whole ball rolling.(In a highly influential speech in June 1909) Roosevelt agitated for senatorial reform for “the direct election of senators” for years.
It’s in the Progressive Party Platform of 1912.
All of the blame for the Income Tax goes to the guy on Mount Rushmore. All of it.
There is a great deal of evidence to that. Wilson's crowning racist achievement was re-segregating the federal government. We need not look at his racist speech, only his actions. Compare that to LBJ, another racist progressive. Despite his racism, Republicans and the thrust of American forced him to sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Equality of all men moved forward even during the Johnson administration.
Correction, the inheritance tax is in the progressive party platform, not the income tax.
As this thread is originally about the 17th amendment, I also had that on my mind.
All of these issues TR agitated for. The death tax, the income tax, and the change to the senate.
It matters, because unlike earlier proposals, the Progressives had growing government and undermining the Constitution as a specific goal. Earlier generations were merely trying to bring consistency to senatorial election, and had no anti-Constitutional intent.
It's in their own writing, the progressives. They were DONE with the Constitution. And still are, BTW.
“I could go back to include T Roosevelt, but I rather demonize Wilson as it occurred during his presidency.”
So you know it’s not correct but misrepresent history for the sake of polemics.
Dinesh D’Souza and Beck specialize in this hackery, it’s a shame to see people who know better imitating it.
It doesn’t matter that Progressives advocated direct election when it had already been proposed in Congress for over 90 years, long before Progressives were even born.
Election by state legislatures had its own problems that were well known.
It was a policy no more written in stone than any other feature found in the Articles of Confederation.
The Philadelphia convention jettisoned state legislature election for the House. There’s no reason that the policy is any better when used for the Senate since either way each State gets equal representation in that chamber.
I get your point. It is not as nefarious as it may seem. I should not have written “(Wilson)” in my original post. Reread that without “(Wilson)”. I was just using Wilson as a dating mechanism and a reference progressive. Sloppy on my part.
<>Election by state legislatures had its own problems that were well known.<>
I addressed those problems in post #21.
Ping to PGA, PGalt and C210N.
<>The whole attempt to make a sacred cow out of State legislatures selecting Senators is ridiculous.<>
The Constitution acts on both the people and the states. Simple repbulican theory demands the states’ presence in the lawmaking body. Do you disagree?
“When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils, but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles.”
Reminder of your GREAT work, Rod. Thanks. BUMP-TO-THE-TRUTH
Dinesh D’Souza and Beck specialize in this hackery, it’s a shame to see people who know better imitating it."
In the realm of history, Beck is the singular high profile recognizable face that I am aware of anywhere with the guts to stand up to Theodore Roosevelt's cult of personality. It's a shame that he did so much self-immolation after his Fox show, we need someone new who will explore the years of 1900-1920.
I am not aware of anybody else who has done this. Everybody else cowers in fear and will not tell the truth about progressivism because TR's cult will be unleashed.
I've faced this cult myself. There is a very big cottage industry within progressivism that cannot have the statist truth be told about TR.
"The Philadelphia convention jettisoned state legislature election for the House."
This makes sense for a body that you want to be representative of the people. But the states need representation too. That used to be the Senate. Without their representation, the states have no teeth up in D.C.
The reality is that the 17th amendment abolishes the senate and gives us two Houses of Representatives. You seem to think this doesn't matter or is a mere footnote to another footnote downward further on the page. Structure matters and progressives have always understood this better than most, they constantly talk about structure in their writings. That the progressives did not want to hear from the states anymore tells you everything you need to know about the 17th.
Of all forums, Free Republic, it’s a shame at how difficult it is at times to sell first principles.
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