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To: Cronos

This is not a Russia vs Ukraine war.

It is a US Deep State/Totalitarian Globalist Depopulationist vs Sovereign Nation-State war.

We fomented a Ukraine revolution/coup in 2014, caused a civil war and sided with the neo-Nazis and Ukrainian nationalists that wanted to exterminate the ethnic Russian population.

We encouraged Ukraine to ignore the Minsk Agreement it signed that would have brought peace to the region.

We armed Ukraine with offensive weapons, teased NATO membership for Ukraine (Gorbachev agreed on dismantling the eastern Soviet bloc on condition that we would not bring countries bordering Russia into NATO) and opened biological weapons labs there.

Then we built the Ukrainian army into the largest army in the NATO zone besides us, and massed it for deployment in the area of the Donbass in obvious preparation for an attack.

And finally, when Russia responded to all that, we claimed they invaded Ukraine for no good reason to annex territory.


55 posted on 11/06/2022 8:39:15 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ( We need to “build back better” on the bones and ashes of those forcing us to “Build Back Better.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“We” meaning the DNC bastardization of US intelligence, military and foreign policy. The Democrats and the wealth they actually represent do not represent the actual people of the US, citing their homosexual agenda, schools BLM BS, etc.


57 posted on 11/06/2022 9:05:52 AM PST by Jumper ( )
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This is a Putin vs Ukraine war.

The USA didn’t foment the 2014 revolution, this was done by Putin’s actions in 2008.

In 2008 Ukraine and Georgia applied to join NATO. That was rejected by Germany and France for fear of “provoking Russia”.

6 weeks after that rejection Putin invaded Georgia.

Putin then moved go get his man Yanukovych in power and Yanukovych in 2014 reneged on an election promise yo make Ukraine less corrupt and instead swung it to become a vassal state of the Kremlin. The people of Ukraine didn’t want that and Yanukovych was impeached and fled to Moscow.

If the Ukrainians hadn’t done that they would have become another Belarus.


59 posted on 11/06/2022 10:26:40 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This is a Putin vs Ukraine war.

No neo nazis or Ukraine nationalists in 2013 wanted to exterminate “ethnic Russians”


60 posted on 11/06/2022 10:27:54 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This is a Putin vs Ukraine war.

As to the minsk agreement, Minsk II collapsed because of differing interpretations on the agreements between Ukraine and R7, thereby making the Minsk II agreements worthless, namely -

1. Ukraine saw the Minsk II 2015 agreement to re-establish control over the rebel territories. It wants a ceasefire, control of the Russia-Ukraine border, elections in the Donbas, and a limited devolution of power to the separatists – in that order.

2. Russia viewed the Minsk II 2015 deal as obliging Ukraine to grant rebel authorities in Donbas comprehensive autonomy and representation in the central government, effectively giving Moscow the power to veto Kyiv’s policy choices. Only then would Russia return the Russia-Ukraine border to Kyiv’s control.

If you are American, would you like to lose your sovereign rights and have Canada or Mexico have representation in Congress, effectively giving Mexico and Canada power to veto the USA’s policy choices?

Furthermore, According to the Minsk agreements Russia had to withdraw all their forces from the occupied Ukrainian territory. They have never done that


61 posted on 11/06/2022 10:41:52 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

E pluribus unum “(Gorbachev agreed on dismantling the eastern Soviet bloc on condition that we would not bring countries bordering Russia into NATO”

That’s a lie which even Gorbachev said was a lie and no such promise was made.

Why do you keep repeating a lie?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:

1. Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.
2. There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
3. Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.

When one reads the full text of the Woerner speech http://nato.int/docu/speech/1990/s900517a_e.htm
cited by Putin, it is clear that the secretary general’s comments referred to NATO forces in eastern Germany, not a broader commitment not to enlarge the Alliance.

Here is a link to Gorbachev’s interview http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html

The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”


There was mo promise made especially considering that in 1989 Gorbachev didn’t agree on “dismantling the eastern bloc” just about german reunification.

Why are you repeating lies?


62 posted on 11/06/2022 10:47:55 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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