[SunkenCiv]

A few years back an ancient wreck was found on the abyssal plain of the Mediterranean. Naturally, there are bound to be others down there (as suggested by Willard Bascom and Robert Ballard), but most wrecks happened in shallow water. Coastal sailing in ancient times was dreamed up by modern landlubbers. ;')

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[SunkenCiv]

Still not at home, will ping the list tomorrow, as well as update each of you.

Robert Ballard
interviewed by Elizabeth Farnsworth
1997

Well, when the ships sink in the high seas, it’s very different than in shallow water. In shallow water they commonly run aground; they hit a reef or rocks, and they are severely damaged and torn open. And then they fall in shallow water and then for centuries and in some cases millenniums, storms continue to pound on them, and they get rather obliterated by time, and then they’re commonly discovered by divers who loot them, or fishermen that loot them.

In the deep sea it’s a very different situation. These ships really just simply founder. They took on too much water. And they sank intact, and they sank pretty slowly. They fall down at a few miles an hour and settle into the soft mud thousands of feet below. And a portion of the ship is actually buried in the bottom, and then wood bores will eat the upper part of the ship, but it leaves everything, particularly the cargoes, in their imaginary hull. So when we came across them, we actually saw the cargo stacked inside the forward and after hulls of these ancient ships.

Mindell has role in ancient shipwreck discovery
by Denise Brehm
MIT News Office
1997

The wrecks included five ships from ancient Roman times; one Islamic ship, probably medieval; and two sailing ships from the 18th or 19th century. The oldest wreck, about 120 feet long, had two cargo holds containing bronze vessels, at least eight types of amphorae for carrying foodstuffs, an array of kitchen and other household wares and two large lead anchors. The largest amphora was about five feet tall. In order to confirm the estimated dates.

[SunkenCiv]

See my review ("HolyOlio").

The Ancient Mariners by Lionel Casson

[SunkenCiv]

The pristine deepwater wreck:

Deep-Sea Clues to an Ancient Culture Discovered
by William J. Broad
October 12, 1998

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/101298sci-shipwreck.html

[SunkenCiv]

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[Destro]

The need for rare tin during the bronze age made discoveries even of the Americas possibble by bronze age mariners - but when the iron age came about the dicoveries were lost as the need for tin was reduced.

Sort of like how we quest for oil now at remote parts of the earth but if we no longer needed fossil fuels we would lose over time our geoknowledge of deep sea oil fields if records were lost - and in the bronze age most records were orally remembered and passed down from captain to captain. In time they remained as only legends in the memory.

[SunkenCiv]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

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[SunkenCiv]

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[bert]

Folks here like to rant about globalism and consider trade on an international scale to be globalist

This post indicates international trade has been a fact of life literally since the beginning.

It is worth mentioning that the process was insured. Marine cargo insurance has been a part of the various trade venture for many thousande years