Posted on 12/08/2006 10:25:19 AM PST by LibWhacker
It's a matter of public policy: one cannot expect property-owners (in this case) to be afraid to fill gopher-holes after an accident until the statute of limitations has expired, or the court case is concluded.
But it must be admissible as evidence if, under the circumstances you describe, I was defending the action by claiming that there was no gopher hole, therefore no possibility of the accident having occurred as alleged. If they say "Oh yes, we changed the routing out of an abundance of caution, once we learned about it," then your principle of law would apply. But if they altered it in an attempt to deny that they directed them to use that route then that is "guilty knowledge."
In this case it really wouldn't be the offense, but the cover up, that controls admissibility.
my mom used to ask ,"If Mapquest told you to drive off a bridge, would you? "
Especially since Bear Camp Road doesn't go to Gold Beach, but rather dead ends. The first of many mistakes in this typical AP article.
"Authorities say the cyber-savvy family may have plucked the route from Grants Pass to Gold Beach from an online mapping service, unaware of the elements," AP reported. "Despite its impassable snowdrifts and single lane, Bear Camp Road is offered as the preferred route on some websites and on-board-directions software available on some new cars.
No it is not. What is offered is to go west 11 miles from Merlin on Galice road, then left onto the BLM 34-8-36 road for 12 miles, where that road ends and splits into the NF-23 road (on the left) and Bear Camp Road (on the right.) Remember this intersection. The Google directions say to "Continue on NF-23) for 24 miles, then turn left at the NF-33 road for 19 miles to another intersection. That intersection is 10 miles from Gold Beach along the south bank of the Rogue River, and where they likely would have been told to cross the river to get onto the road on the north bank, where their lodge is.
Note that nowhere does the route suggest taking "Bear Camp Road," because Bear Camp Road isn't the through route. Just Google Earth it, or Google Maps, or Mapquest, or MSN maps. None of them show Bear Camp Road as a main road.
The problem is that Bear Camp Road is actually wider than the main road where it splits off from the main road (BLM34-8-36/NF-23.) Perhaps that fork in the road had poor signage, but that isn't the mapmakers' fault. The family got into trouble because they took a wrong turn at Bear Camp road and then continued 15 more miles down various zigzaggy roads and through multiple splitoffs until they ended up completely lost in the maze. Unfortunately easy to do, but if they had stayed on the main road and carefully followed the directions they would have made it safely to their destination. Perhaps such a poorly-marked route that isn't maintained in winter shouldn't be used as an option, but it doesn't excuse questionable judgements. The mapmakers didn't choose to go into the mountains without much gas, didn't choose to go up a road marked "closed in winter" on the Oregon highway map the family had with them, didn't choose to head across the mountains on a very cold and stormy night, didn't choose to continue going despite snow, slickness, and the general poor conditions of all the road past Galice.
My point is not to blame them, it is easy to understand how a series of events and seemingly minor decisions could end up putting this family in harm's way before they knew it. I can't say for sure that it couldn't happen to me. But there were a lot of factors involved in this incident, and just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that it should be sued. The talk about the mapmakers being financially liable is ludicrous and a good example of what is screwing up this country.
According to Associated Press, drivers are advised not to take Bear Camp Road to Gold Beach in winter, the route taken by the Kims.
Especially since Bear Camp Road doesn't go to Gold Beach, but rather splits off from the main road. The first of many mistakes in this typical AP article.
"Authorities say the cyber-savvy family may have plucked the route from Grants Pass to Gold Beach from an online mapping service, unaware of the elements," AP reported. "Despite its impassable snowdrifts and single lane, Bear Camp Road is offered as the preferred route on some websites and on-board-directions software available on some new cars.
No it is not. What is offered is to go west 11 miles from Merlin on Galice road, then left onto the BLM 34-8-36 road for 12 miles, where that road ends and splits into the NF-23 road (on the left) and Bear Camp Road (on the right.) Remember this intersection. The Google directions say to "Continue on NF-23) for 24 miles, then turn left at the NF-33 road for 19 miles to another intersection. That intersection is 10 miles from Gold Beach along the south bank of the Rogue River, and where they likely would have been told to cross the river to get onto the road on the north bank, where their lodge is.
Note that nowhere does the route suggest taking "Bear Camp Road," because Bear Camp Road isn't the through route. Just Google Earth it, or Google Maps, or Mapquest, or MSN maps. None of them show Bear Camp Road as a main road.
The problem is that Bear Camp Road is actually wider than the main road where it splits off from the main road (BLM34-8-36/NF-23.) Perhaps that fork in the road had poor signage, but that isn't the mapmakers' fault. The family got into trouble because they took a wrong turn at Bear Camp road and then continued 15 more miles down various zigzaggy roads and through multiple splitoffs until they ended up completely lost in the maze. Unfortunately easy to do, but if they had stayed on the main road and carefully followed the directions they would have made it safely to their destination. Perhaps such a poorly-marked route that isn't maintained in winter shouldn't be used as an option, but it doesn't excuse questionable judgements. The mapmakers didn't choose to go into the mountains without much gas, didn't choose to go up a road marked "closed in winter" on the Oregon highway map the family had with them, didn't choose to head across the mountains on a very cold and stormy night, didn't choose to continue going despite snow, slickness, and the general poor conditions of all the road past Galice.
My point is not to blame them, it is easy to understand how a series of events and seemingly minor decisions could end up putting this family in harm's way before they knew it. I can't say for sure that it couldn't happen to me. But there were a lot of factors involved in this incident, and just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that it should be sued. The talk about the mapmakers being financially liable is ludicrous and a good example of what is screwing up this country.
Driving through snowy mountain passes means taking the right gear: snow chains, blankets, power bars, water, extra clothes if the starting and stopping destinations really aren't that cold.
Even in the Northeast when you really arent that far from civ. (ever) if you're in a car in the winter it makes sense to throw a sleeping bag and some extra warm clothing in the car. If you break down on the side of the highway and have to hoof it somewhere I would rather do it in some warm hiking boots, etc. then in a business suit.
But I feel bad for the family. It's a sad story.
Also good for any vehicle is first aid kit, flashlight, knife, road flares, some extra vehicle fluids, and length of line (rope).
Which would be fine in and of itself (though a tad lazy), except that the accusation he makes is out of date. Newer press briefings have told us that the Kims were told about this road in person from an attendant inside a one of those state-run rest stop/chamber of commerce things, and that said attendant specifically warned them that said road may be dangerous at this time of year.
That is not so IMO and I've lived in that area and have taken that route to the coast (summertime) before. They got into trouble the minute they decided to take the mountain route to Gold Beach via Galice. The fact that they strayed from the route the mapping tried to steer them is probably not relavant. The minute they turned off the Merlin-Galice road they were on a road that was not normally drivable in the winter. Probably did not make any difference they made a wrong turn, they still would have not made the coast making all the right turns.
Having lived in S Oregon for 15 years until 2004 you would know not to go that way in the winter. Even in the summmer although shorter it is not a quicker or even easier way to go.
From the Grants Pass area you have two choices to get to Gold Beach, 199 south then north on hwy 1 or I-5 north to 42 then south on hwy 1.
The guy worked for CNET. He should know that most of those internet mapping/trip services are wrong ALL the time.
My 1992 & 2002 Rand McNally atlas clearly shows that most the roads in that area going from I5 to 101 are NOT maintained in the winter,(i.e pass at your own risk).
The only road across is rt 42 in the winter.
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