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Why Don’t Public Schools Do A Better Job?
YouTube ^ | Dec. 15, 2008 | Bruce Deitrick Price

Posted on 03/02/2010 1:52:10 PM PST by BruceDeitrickPrice

One of the most striking things about education is that everyone has a theory.

A lot of these ideas are extreme. Some are what I call swaggering defeatism (everything is fixed, game over, no use fighting). At the other end are blue-sky utopians (we have to level the schools and start over a different way). Truthfully, a lot of this is not very helpful. Smaller, immediate goals are usually going to produce more progress.

But here’s what is most profoundly troubling to me about all these ideas. They give cover to the people who are the real problem, namely, our Education Establishment.

These guys always want to blame somebody else. First, they say it’s the kids’ fault because they don't try. Then it’s the parents’ fault because they don’t care. Then it’s society’s fault because we don’t spend enough money, etc.

Our top educators are in perpetual CYA mode. The last thing they want is that anybody actually look in their direction. Can you imagine HOW GRATEFUL THEY ARE that most of the people in this country use up their reformist energies discussing split infinitives, planning new kinds of schools on the moon, or just giving up?

In every industry, and every kind of human activity, when you have a bad year, the first reaction is to fire the coach, get a new CEO or whatever. But we never do that in education. We let the same people (quacks and hacks, I’m afraid) mess up year after year; and when we identify a problem, we let these people replace the old stupid idea with a brand-new stupid idea.

I’d suggest we need new people, and a new class of ideas. To get there we have to stay focused on the real culprits.

(The thinking above led to the YouTube video. Only 3 minutes. Makes the same points in a light-hearted way. Please use whichever one you think might help.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN-dY1HBqsQ


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Society
KEYWORDS: education; failingschools; k12; publiceducation; publicschools
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice
I have a child who just entered the public school. He is in kindergarten, which in our state has a curriculum that is very like what first grade used to be.

His teacher is excellent. Indeed we chose the school over another private school option because of her. The other teachers I have met also seem quite good. My son is learning a lot in school. But I see that there are some problems:

1. It is already obvious in kindergarten that the kids whose parents support them and take an interest in their school work do far better. Since the parents who do not do this are more likely to have their kids in public school, the public schools get the blame for these under-performing kids when it is the parents who have the highest degree of responsibility.

2. The teachers are bound to follow state curriculum mandates. In our state there is apparently a theory that starting kids on academics early will mean that they will be ahead later on. But there is evidence from other countries that a later start may actually be better in the long run for many kids and that they soon catch up. It is great to see that kids can learn to read at a younger age. But taking all the play out of kindergarten undoubtedly has some negative effects, including the possible establishment of a poor attitude toward learning in the long run.

A lot of kids, for a variety of reasons, just aren't ready to start learning to read at this age. Any problems down the road being caused by this state mandate will undoubtedly be blamed on the teachers and local administrators.

3. There is always a tendency for the physical plant of a public school to get somewhat run down. These schools have to handle more kids. A successful vote on a bond issue is required to build a new school. No one wants to pay more property taxes, especially people who don't even have kids in the school. No one wants to subsidize other peoples kids and everyone wants a cheap education for their own kids. Everyone wants to spend the minimum until the physical problems reach a crisis level.

You can still teach kids in a run down school but the environment will undoubtedly have some effect on learning and on the attitude toward learning.

41 posted on 03/02/2010 3:42:46 PM PST by wideminded
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To: flowerplough

If it starts with parents, they should go right down the line — teachers, administrators, kids. Parents are the ones who should be in control. They pay the bills.


42 posted on 03/02/2010 3:53:01 PM PST by goldi (')
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To: wintertime
Yep, but not just socialism.

It applies to any government entity except the military (the military has an existential competition of the highest order in that failure to achieve excellence in battle means death)...but I guess one could say that government work is always socialist in nature even when part of a system primarily based on free markets.

43 posted on 03/02/2010 3:53:19 PM PST by SonOfDarkSkies (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... - D.H. Lawrence)
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice

Since I actually teach in a public school, here’s my 2 cents:

1. Lack of discipline. Lawsuit-shy school administrators avoid suspension and expulsion whenever possible. Disruptive students are allowed to remain in school. Sometimes foolish judges even make it a condition of parole. And, unfortunately, corporal punishment was removed. Therefore, the schools are in the position of imposing order without having the means to do so.

2. Foolish theories. We have a huge class of professional educational researchers- professors and college instructors who do not ever actually have to set foot in a real school- who come up with specious theories and then proceed to do research (flawed research, IMO) designed to support the conclusions they make. Most of this research, as any teacher could tell you, bears little or no relation to what actually happens in a classroom. And this is what people who wish to become teachers have to deal with before they go out into the world...

3. Lack of academic focus. Our schools are often glorified sports programs with a building attached where some books are stored. Because our population worships sports figures, many people believe that their offspring’s success is predicated on how well they can chase a ball around. Unfortunately, the reality is that most of many people’s children are not that athletically gifted....

4. Lack of academic rigor. Social promotion exists in public schools- students get promoted from grade to grade in order to not hurt their self esteem, or some other spurious reason. (And no, this isn’t done by teachers- it is usually done in spite of them.) Our schools should be expected to have standards and expect students to meet them, not lower the bar repeatedly. And this should be done, even if it clearly shows that some poor, minority children don’t perform well. (This is a problem that won’t be solved until we can actually acknowledge its existence without the screams of “racism”.)

5. Curricula that is useful. Currently, our educational theorists tell us that all students should move on to college. This is garbage. We should offer students choices between a primarily academic course of study aimed at a four year school, or a primarily vocational one aimed at apprenticing students into useful trades.

6. Testing: currently, a lot of standardized testing has been touted as the current nostrum for educational ills. Testing by itself is not much of a problem- it is the structure of the testing and what is being tested. Most standardized tests utilize a “growth model”. This idea is that the student, over a number of years, shows steady improvement. This is hogwash and designed so the results can be manipulated by clever mathematicians. Also, the objectives being tested are often vague- to prevent teachers teaching to the test. (Which begs the question- why do you avoid this- don’t you test on things you want the students to know?) Standardized testing should be done on a flat percentage- 100 questions, 70 right= pass. No standard deviations, or other mathematical flimflam. The objectives should be clear, and well known.

7. Unpoliticized curricula based on facts. The current mantra right now is “skills” or “critical thinking.” The idea is currently that all people can be taught to be creative thinkers capable of solving a multitude of problems. This fails to recognize the truth- only some of us are great thinkers- just as only some of us are great doers. Another problem with this is that if it is not fact-based, we cannot measure it. Trying to measure how well someone “critically thinks” is like counting the hairs on a dog- you won’t get it done.

8. Inability to recognize hard truths. A lot of people in education act on assumptions based on this simple statement: “All children can learn”. As far as it goes, it is true- but it is burdened with the implication that “All Children Can Learn All Things Equally Well.” Educators must recognize the inherent inequality in all humans, and recognize ultimately that everyone won’t be educated- we will always fall short of perfection, and that we will hit a point of diminishing marginal utility.

I could go on...but I am going to finish with this remark. One thing that would benefit more than a great many things is that we need more conservative people in education. Clear-eyed people willing to look at the problems, apply practical solutions, who would be good influences on our young people. Conservatives have seemingly conceded this realm to the leftists, and predictably, they have screwed it up. There is no good reason to allow leftists to own this turf. Civitas is a conservative value, after all.


44 posted on 03/02/2010 4:05:27 PM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice
The public school system does an excellent job, at what it was truly, originally designed to do. It's function was never to "educate" at all. It's function was to create mindless drones to slave away for the State (the Prussian Model)...

the infowarrior

45 posted on 03/02/2010 4:07:09 PM PST by infowarrior
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To: wideminded
Homeschoolers have no fancy labs, gyms, playgrounds, cafeterias, libraries, or multiple assistant principals’ offices.

Yet...homeschoolers excel with the most minimal of educational equipment by studying around the kitchen table.

In fact,...I state that nearly 99.9999% of everything a child learns is in the home. If they are institutionalized for the schooling the real learning is due to the **”afterschooling” done by the parents and child, himself!

If government schools were to complete shut down tomorrow. The same children who are being educated today would be educated tomorrow. Why? Because they would have the same teachers ( their parents and themselves!)

Amazing!

46 posted on 03/02/2010 4:11:35 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: GenXteacher

Well stated, Mr. GenXteacher

Also the curriculum and textbooks are absolutely rotten. They are written by liberals and politicos and chosen by the political school board approved by the administration and the teachers’ union. Take a look at any history text from early grades on to English texts -and math and science texts. There are falsehoods quoted and gross misrepresentations made and, because there’s a political agenda on who to cover, the texts are very confusing for children to read and get the real meat out of an idea.


47 posted on 03/02/2010 4:24:57 PM PST by Cordio
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To: GenXteacher

I appreciate your report from the trenches.

Note that most of what you (and several others) talk about is what I mean by the “Education Establishment.” That’s the NEA (the unions); the left-wing professors; the schools of education, i.e., Teachers College, Harvard, U. of Chicago, etc. That’s all the goofy and malevolent ideas coming down from On High.

It’s all one thing, this Education Establishment. I think of it as a dinosaur the size of Manhattan. And here’s what we need to know: how do we cut the head off this beast??


48 posted on 03/02/2010 8:14:34 PM PST by BruceDeitrickPrice (education reform)
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To: GenXteacher

Agree with all your points except for #7. Knowing a lot of facts may make someone successful on a TV game show, but in real life what counts is what you can do with the facts that you learn. This requires the ability to think and to draw some conclusions from the facts. Learning facts is a necessary but not sufficient part of education.


49 posted on 03/03/2010 12:40:57 AM PST by wideminded
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To: GenXteacher

Dealing with the achievement gap has been the bane of more than one school district. It casts a shadow over everything at Mrs ComputerGuy’s high school.


50 posted on 03/03/2010 1:11:02 AM PST by ComputerGuy (0bama's IQ = (100 + 85) / 2)
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To: wintertime
If we have vouchers for K-12 education we **will** see the ***same** thing! Private school tuition will continually increase.

The key difference you are missing is that public schools don't have tuition at the primary and secondary level. So if the competition, good public schools, and they will be improving to keep or attract students, are not going up in price, the private primary and secondary schools will not be able to raise price as much as the colleges and universities do.
51 posted on 03/03/2010 1:43:09 AM PST by JLS (Democrats: People who wont even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day)
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To: wintertime; goldi

Yes, really, WT, parents don’t care. A few parents care, once in a while, for special occasions, and a few of those parents even follow up, long term, but, basically, parents don’t care about public school quality. If they did care, they’d push their kids into the immigrant-kid-filled after-school academic tutoring shops, or they’d move to better school districts, or they’d force their kids into nerdy private and parochial schools. And, no, I didn’t see John Stossel’s program last week. I don’t watch television for news. I can read, or skim, so much faster than John Stossel can talk, so it’s much more efficient to get my news from the net or the papers.


52 posted on 03/03/2010 5:30:51 AM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: wideminded

I don’t always agree with it either, to be honest. I teach history- most of what I teach is fact-based, or should be. Facts do often speak for themselves, and a great danger when you get beyond that and try to teach people how to think, is that there is a pretty good chance of teaching people what to think- and that is just plain wrong.... And, measuring thinking skills is one of those areas where things get a bit nebulous.


53 posted on 03/03/2010 9:07:45 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice

“And here’s what we need to know: how do we cut the head off this beast??”
I’m not really sure the beast has a head. I think it best to infiltrate and metastize, until we have possession of it.


54 posted on 03/03/2010 9:10:00 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice
I'll throw in my 2 cents... it is the educators and the entire system supporting cast of players.

Talk to the standard teacher: "we are underpaid, under appreciated, over worked".
My response; "welcome to reality, thanks for joining us here"
Teacher; "but, but you make xxx working for (evil) corporations, I should be paid like you are!"
Me; "sure, school hours, weekends, summers, holidays, breaks off, enjoy your pay cut"
Teacher; "but I work on lesson plans and supply [stuff]!"
Me;"welcome to reality, thanks for joining us here"

and I bring up performance evaluation and how that directly impacts your raise that you may be eligible for every 18 months, did I metion may be eligible for?

Public schools have become what other "social services" have become. Demanding all the benefits of the competitive market but protected from process improvement, talent assessment and measurement to goals and objectives.

55 posted on 03/03/2010 9:40:21 AM PST by NativeSon
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To: NativeSon

You can see what I make right here:
http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2009-10schedules.pdf

We don’t have a teacher’s union, btw. I’m content with what I make- I don’t do this for the money.

“we are underpaid, under appreciated, over worked”. Considering what we deal with every day, there is some truth in that. Try teaching the significance of the Protestant Reformation to a little girl whose father has been raping her, or, try teaching the checks and balances of the US Constitution to a Latino kid who can’t read English. And do this while simultaneously sending some punk with .25 auto in his pocket to the office.... When someone tells me my job is easy, I tell them “you do it.”

“but protected from process improvement, talent assessment”- This is a common fallacy. We have to document a process of professional development in order to maintain our teaching licenses. Mostly we have to attend classes or inservice meetings (this is done in private industry too) sometimes during the summer, some of which we have to pay for out of our own pocket, taking advantage of free or cheap ones whenever possible. We are reviewed by our administrators regularly- if they find our performance is deficient, then they can initiate some action plan to force the teacher to improve, prior to dismissing them if that becomes necessary. A lot of people imagine we are unaccountable- they are quite mistaken. A teacher is accountable to the building administrators, the school superintendant, the school board, the public, and to themselves.

“measurement to goals and objectives.”
This is something teachers do object to, with good reason. If we were making widgets, then we could be very strictly accountable for all steps of the process, which could be quantified as simply as x number, x type, x model, etc, which would be plain and simple to measure. Unfortunately, there is another factor at work- the student. Some students perform great, and some badly. If you measure by the student’s results, well, you won’t get a true picture of what the teacher has been doing. The reason is that the student is basically a variable. Some students don’t want to perform well, and some can’t. For example, a brilliant teacher may be able to teach a rock how to fly, contingent on that rock following directions. Failing to follow directions, the rock doesn’t fly. Is that the teacher’s fault? Of course not. But we get blamed for it anyway.

“welcome to reality, thanks for joining us here”
Actually, we are a lot closer than people think we are. A lot of what we deal with sends people packing out of our profession quickly- the average person that starts teaching lasts about 5 years or less....


56 posted on 03/03/2010 10:13:01 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: bgill
The ONLY problem with public education is the failure of parents

That is true. Their failure is that they do not send their children to private school or home school them. Multiculturalism is anathema to education. It matters not how often the parents yell at the principal.

57 posted on 03/03/2010 10:30:36 AM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: GenXteacher
The "standard" teacher. There is always something that doesn't fit the model.

underpaid? quit,no one forces you to take the job.

I have taught kids, in a crappy Philly hood (where I'm from) and yes, it was easy for me.

Measurement - I don't make anything, much of what I do is about the behavior of others that I must control to a large extent and yes, I am held accountable - that's my job - I can quit if I don't like it.

It sounds that you like your job and I hope that you are a good teacher but you are not what I have dealt with. The large schools in the large cities, those with the loud unions and that suk-out-loud, that's the ones.

as for the student population, I know it's bad but you can thank your progressive movement for destroying the American family and the values that bound us. You can thank all those Left teachers and their unions for getting us to where we are.

Oh, and don't take any of this personally, I don't.

58 posted on 03/04/2010 4:10:01 AM PST by NativeSon
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To: BruceDeitrickPrice

Are public schools necessary?


59 posted on 03/04/2010 4:13:52 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: wideminded
No one wants to pay more property taxes, especially people who don't even have kids in the school.

People are FED UP paying outrageous property taxes for a system that deliberately produces a sub-standard 'product'.

60 posted on 03/04/2010 4:20:58 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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