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To: betty boop
I see there are more responses in the time I spent writing that last one.

I can agree that organizational and developmental principles are an irreducible part of the natural order. But where did this natural order come from?

And that's what I was talking about: will it ever be possible for us, as products of that natural order, to answer that question? We can choose to believe something and call it an answer, but that's not the same thing.

59 posted on 07/21/2013 10:37:38 AM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; Alamo-Girl; marron; YHAOS; MHGinTN; TXnMA; metmom; spirited irish; ...
We can choose to believe something and call it an answer, but that's not the same thing [as a "truthful" answer].

I think I understand your point, HHTVL. Though I did elaborate on it somewhat, in the above [brackets]. I need to ask you: Does the bracketed material reflect your own view?

It seems to me that every single human being who has ever lived, or is now living, "believes" — has faith — in something. That statement seems to me to be both uncontroversial, and incontestable.

The point is: In what does any given person believe? And how closely does it dovetail with, or correspond with, the actual Reality that we commonly perceive, in which we actually exist?

In the end, I suppose this all has to do with the "quality" of our belief.

If a person has "faith" in the idea that we live in a random, chancy universe, I would describe that situation as a very "low-quality" belief. For it doesn't really explain anything.

Don't downgrade yourself and your cognitive powers. You and me and everybody else are denizens of the natural order. But we are more than just that. For as rational beings, we have access to an order that transcends the purely natural. Please do not give that short shrift.

I'm grateful for your reply, HHTVL. Thank you!

71 posted on 07/24/2013 4:04:13 PM PDT by betty boop
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