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To: SeekAndFind
And that view is nonsense. No one in his right mind would have invaded the USSR in 1945. The US CAPPED its infantry divisions at 89. The Soviets put 100 divisions into a SINGLE offensive. Already there was resistance by GIs and Marines about going to Japan---as "Band of Brothers" points out when Ambrose interviewed the guys about the "point" system.

People just have a tough time believing that "sh@t happens."

As for the comment about MacArthur and Patton vs. Ike, Eisenhower did a fantastic job of placating the Brits while making sure that everyone stayed on focus. And while MacArthur was exceptional, the greatest "general" of the Pacific in terms of casualties per # of men committed was an admiral, Nimitz, who had in his sector Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and yet still lost fewer men proportionally than did Mac.

16 posted on 10/07/2014 8:26:29 AM PDT by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: LS
I agree with your general conclusion about the unwisdom of invading Russian in 1945, or in 1941 for that matter, considering their favorable geographic position, the size of The Red Army, and the often underestimated great capacity of their industrial complex by the end of the war.

As to the quality of the German army, or the relative qualities of MacArthur and Nimitz, it is important to compare apples to apples. Certainly, the German Army unit for unit had superb cohesion and was effective on offense and defense. Considering the interference of Hitler, the staff work was superb. Their weapons were of the highest quality although not necessarily the greatest quantity. The Germans invented three-dimensional blitzkrieg warfare and revolutionized the art. In defense or offense against overwhelming odds in Russia, they fought brilliantly with some exceptions, the Kursk salient primary among them, inflicting disproportionate casualties with dwindling resources. If one takes Hitler out of the equation, the German military performed brilliantly. If one insists on considering his role with all the strategic mistakes and stubborn tactical mistakes, the judgment shifts. All in all, it is remarkable how much the Germans accomplished with very limited resources. For example, it was really only the tip of the spear that was armored, the bulk of German logistics were accomplished by horsepower when the Army departed from the rails.

As to Admiral Nimitz and MacArthur, I do not have the data at fingertips but it seems that the question is not only the number of casualties inflicted in battle but enemy numbers neutralized by island hopping, for which I believe credit should go to MacArthur and which would count heavily in his favor for the sheer numbers of Japanese soldiers left to starve and suffer from disease. There is also the question of who was more favored by Washington in the provision of war matériel. Whether justified or not the chronic complaint from MacArthur was that he was shortchanged and this may or may not be characterized as a kind of paranoia which led to secrecy and failure to coordinate and communicate with Washington, the dire harvest of which was experienced in Korea. Proponents of McArthur have consistently argued that he did more with less in the Southwest Pacific theater.


26 posted on 10/07/2014 9:04:18 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: LS
The US CAPPED its infantry divisions at 89. The Soviets put 100 divisions into a SINGLE offensive.

you make the error of equating a US division with a soviet division in terms of strength.

Avg US had 15,000 troops, a Soviet rifle division around 11-12,000.

In airpower alone the US produced 324,000 planes of all types compared to 136,233 for the Soviets.

In terms of tanks and spgs, US: 102,410, Soviets: 106,025

We produced over 2 million trucks. I don't have info on Soviet truck production but I know we transferred a significant number to the Russians.

Naval forces are not even close. Consider all the steel we poured into carriers, battleships, etc that would have been freed up for other production.

Let's not forget food production either. We fed a good part of the world in WWII. We cut that off from Russia and they're in trouble.

In terms of GDP in 1945 US: 1474, Soviets: 343

Plus, in 1945 we began tapping down our production whereas the Soviets continued theirs.

Bear in mind this doesn't count any of our allies, Britian, Canada, Australia and quite possibly Germans...especially those in east germany where the russians and abused every woman they could find.

The Russians didn't want the war with US.

34 posted on 10/07/2014 9:57:05 AM PDT by ealgeone
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