Posted on 05/14/2017 9:49:30 AM PDT by topher
Aside from the 20,000 artillery pieces North Korea has, an EMP attack by the US on North Korea would render the majority of North Korea's Defense capability useless: jet fighters, missiles with any sort of electronics, communications, etc.
But if a submarine is submerged, is it vulnerable to an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) and does water/depth the submarine is at limit the EMP weapon.
It is possible that an EMP attack on submarines might cause it to blow up as no telling what would happen. Plus the fact the submarine might have trouble surfacing.
Here is an interesting report on Global Security.org on EMP's:
The Electromagnetic Bomb - a Weapon of Electrical Mass Destruction
Freerepublic: VIDEO: U.S. Navy Tests ‘Star Wars’ Electromagnetic Rail Gun That Can Destroy Targets up [tr]
Freerepublic: EMP: The Greatest Threat to America, and What We Can Do about It
Freerepublic: The Science of Rail Guns
An EMP attack would NOT be ineffective. Our aging electrical grid would be fried.
If only someone had a few $trillion for ‘shovel-ready’ projects, we could have done something to fix all of this.
WARNING: EMP attacks can work against an enemy too.
The term “submarine” being used loosely. A sealed tube with a motor and mounted blind-fire torpedoes is a “submarine” like the original Turtle, far cry from from $multi-billion world-killers.
If I remember my electronics, a solid state device usually fails in as a short circuit. Walk across a carpet and touch an antenna on a radio and ZAP it is a goner. Not quite an EMP but similar. Would a crystal type radio be able to get stations outside the EMP area? Might be worth looking into. I would think a radio stored in a metal cabinet would survive so spare electronic parts probably would also.
I am an EE with a background that overlaps this area. I think damage to auto ignitions is being overstated. The damage to the grid would be substantial. Big transformers take a long time to replace. This is where a large conflict will go since it gives a nuke more bang for the buck. The best thing is to have lots of dry food and an alternate source of water.
An electro-magnetic rail gun is NOT the same as an EMP.
As opposed to a traditional gun that uses an explosive charge to push a slug down the barrel, an E-M rail gun uses large amounts of power and super cooled magnets to push/ pull the slug down the barrel. The result is much faster muzzle velocity which equals better range, more accuracy, and higher KE destructive force.
It’s estimated that rail guns have a muzzle velocity of approx 8,200 ft/s, by comparison, the WW2 era 16” Mk7 fitted to the Iowa class had a MV of 2,490 ft/s
This technology will eventually make warships safer by removing large amounts of explosives.
I think a sub, being a steel cylinder grounded in salt water would be its own self propelled Farraday cage.
Regardless, I think we could take them out in short order.
early 1960’s, STARFISH PRIME
There was mino EMP damage to Hawaii, from down range US nuclear test, Starfish Prime of a 1.6 megaton nuclear device exploded 250miles up at a 10degree angle 1400nm W-SW of Hawaii. 300 streetlights went out and a radiotelephone link was shut down. 998 miles from the center blast 250 miles up. This was in 1962, and has been used by HI to justify all kinds of federal spending for civilian infrastructure.
Actuality is the the US Gov military sites are in need of hardening, comm links and such (or so it is said). EMP generated directly overhead would create much more damage than the 1962 atmospheric test, if done with weapon designed to specifically do this.
“One Second After”— William Fortschen foreward by Newt Gingrich. Firearms will still work. Ammo would have to be hand loaded.
That is true. We could use “soft bombs” to attack NK’s power grid. Instead of an explosive blast or an EMP pulse,soft bombs (BLU-114/U) spread out carbon fiber filaments to short out a power grid.
I’m an engineer with extensive background in EMP. Generally speaking, a high-alltitude EMP blast could indeed do great damage to the eletcrical grid, likely causing loss of electricity over much of the country. (I have not reviewed lately the state of counter-measures, but suspect that we’re still quite vulnerable.)
Also, all unshielded electronics, paricularly at those points that are connected to long cables (power cords, antennas) will likely burn out.
For you survivalists, shielded electronics do not have to be grounded; probably better if they aren’t.
Underwater and underground locations are much more immune to EMP effects.
Older cars are much more immune as well; EMP more adversely affects small-geometry (miniaturized) semiconductors, which is more true for modern electronics. Older cars are much more likely to survive since they have less-miniaturized or no IC-based electronics.
The good news, which probably will deter any rational government from launching an EMP attack, is that our military installations and equipment are hardened against EMP. Retribution would be swift and massive. So we can probably sleep well and not worry (too much) about this.
Before jumping down the rabbit hole on this, I would want to back off and look at the probabilities.
We are thinking about North Korea here. Who is the biggest dog in Asia? China, with a common border and long political history with the Norks.
Now look at China. Their largest market for their exports is the US:
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/chn/
The US is their third largest source of imports.
Are they really going to let Kim destroy the Chinese economy by an EMP attack that will take the US back to the year 1800 for as long as five or ten years or worse?
I think the odds are good that the Chinese are not going to let that happen. and they are in a position both to know what Kim’s capability is and to stop him from doing anything drastic to the US economy.
I’m going to take reasonable precautions, because of the likelihood of a Carrington Event. But I’m not going to lose any sleep over a possible EMP attack by the Norks.
Now, would they stop Kim from a ship-borne attack on Seattle or Los Angeles? That’s a tough calculation. If I lived in a West Coast city, I might lose sleep over THAT.
Military bases should already be hardened against EMP.
Well, yeah— but some over in HI are saying they need more... as I said, maybe a gambit, or maybe not. It is why NORAD moved back into Cheyenne mt.
More years ago the I care to remember, I once read a science fiction story that posited that in the far future, various countermeasures had rendered all technological based arms unusable. The result was that in an era of space ships, men went to war with swords, shields, bows and arrows, spears and etc. We do seem to be moving in that direction.
Is it possible that Kim Jong Un, after meeting with President Trump, might agree with to more open trade relations with other nations of the world?
What might happen?
For 70 years, no other president has even attempted such a move.
Check out Operation Starfish Prime, 1962, near Hawaii: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/07/09/the-50th-anniversary-of-starfish-prime-the-nuke-that-shook-the-world/#.WRhVSGjyuUk)..it is a possibility, in fact more likely than the West Coast. If on an attack trajectory (it was a high altitude test), the latest missile test could have reached 2500 miles. It is 4600 miles from North Korea, but about 6000 miles to the West Coast targets. Therefore, if he wanted to screw up our logistics for the Pacific, Hawaii would be a better target, just as it was on Dec. 7th, 1941, in my opinion.
But the sub, at depth, is powered by battery-driven electric propulsion, which if on the surface, WOULD be vulnerable to EMP, as there are all kinds of load-switching electronics, to shift between the charging of the batteries, and the draw-down of energy stored. Also, virtually all the guidance wiring and control surfaces would be knocked askew.
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Not Hardly! I lived on a boat for several years.
First, even when running on the Diesel the sub is really running on the battery. The Diesel simply turns a generator that charges the battery, the battery then supplies DC to a variety of motor generators and inverters to supply the needs of ships systems and of course an electric motor attached to the shaft of the screw that propels the ship. Generally the speed is GREATLY reduced to a few knots or so.
Nearly every electronic system on a submarine even though not exposed to any effect from an EMP has over voltage drains that carry away any voltage close to harmful. The only systems remotely exposed are those that have antennas and those too have over-voltage drains.
As far as the switch gear being hurt by the high voltages of induced EMP, not even close. This is massive equipment that is designed for huge amperages. The amperages from EMP’s are tiny by comparison. Without high amps to go with the high voltage larger equipment won’t be affected by an EMP.
The shell of a submarine (hull and superstructure) will effectively act as a Faraday cage.
EMP’s are generally overrated. Yes they can be very harmful to equipment, especially equipment nearby and equipment tied to the grid without overvoltage protection. In the US now most electrical service providers that are tied to the National Grids are adding equipment to drain away harmful high voltage spikes of the type that will be caused by an EMP. That does not help much to consumers whose local power lines will pick up the spike and carry it to your home equipment. Most equipment in your home if turned off or unplugged will not be affected. Most cars even though they have vulnerable computers and other accessories will not be affected because of where the equipment is located, that is behind a steel sheet that will keep the EMP from penetrating.
The effect of an EMP detonation is similar to what would happen if you had a lightening strike close to your home. You may lose equipment like a cable modem or even a telephone but likely little else. Lightening creates an EMP very similar to what this thread is discussing. Cable companies have had to replace so many modems that they have now started installing high voltage drains in their equipment to keep costs down. This is especially true in areas that are subject to frequent thunderstorms.
IF you put an EMP detonation close enough it will do damage but not like the movies would have you believe.
Yeah, it messes up their sparkplugs.
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