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To: Rashputin; dfwgator

Over the holidays: I worked through reading a series of a personal accounts of that period...not from Poland, but from Russians themselves. As well as some Ukrainians and Belarussians.

(I have pre-Revolution Russian ancestry by the way on grandfather’s side, but by World War II my grandfather’s family was in France and my part Jewish grandmother was (before they met) lived on the Czech/Austria border.

She and millions like her had to experience BOTH Nazi and Soviet conquest and occupation. And her home was ultimately raided and seized. So to her: (Nazis and Soviets) they are one in the same in terms of what she and her family personally endured at the hands of both.

This is just the way of things in Europe to this day: the Western Allies (British, US troops) to the dismay of Russia — who thinks death toll alone warrant them respect —> the Western allies are recalled with a conclusive agreement in their just cause and overall integrity.

It’s a conundrum, because huge enough swaths of civilians — do not recount a Red Army marked by honor and heroism. This reality vastly overshadows what positive feats there may have been. Enough monstrous behavior marked the ranks so that even those who identified with their cause (Soviet citizens) fell victim to all forms of abuse and rape. Or the Soviet system was itself killing them off around the same period via famine or what have you.

Separate from WWII: the most poignant account I read was about a prisoner exchange between Finnish and Russian troops during a Finno-Russian conflict...

When the Finnish prisoners returned to their brothers in arms, they were greeted by hugs and cheers.

The released Russian prisoners on the other hand, were spat on and scolded by their own comrades for being stupid enough to get caught in the first place thereby insulting the motherland. (It hearkens to mind the shame/honor ethos of the Japanese.)

I am not saying these kinds of accounts are all there is, but that there is enough so as to prevent a cohesive united narrative of “Red Army as selfless heroes.” In the collective European consciousness.

Is it even worth recalling the “Rape of Berlin” - where after victory, thousands upon thousands of German women fell victim to systematic gang rape and abuse at the hands of the Red Army? And that those soldiers were encouraged by orders from above to enjoy such spoils of war?

This is the way of historical memory: enough of Europe equates the Nazi symbols with that of the Sickle and Hammer. Russians do what they do to honor the memory of their fallen, but don’t expect of Europe to start falling in line. Enough people in places like Poland especially recall the memory of the Red Army with immense pain and anger which lingers to this day.


11 posted on 01/18/2018 7:47:19 AM PST by GoldenState_Rose
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To: GoldenState_Rose

General Anders said it best, “With the Nazis we lose our lives, with the Soviets, we lose our souls.”


12 posted on 01/18/2018 7:58:27 AM PST by dfwgator
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