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To: Mrs. Don-o

” that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of god.””
Thomas Jefferson.

I stand with him. Paul was wrong. He wasn’t infallible. That wasn’t the word of Jesus. If a man stands in front of you and says he lords over you, that is prima fascia cause to demand he stand down from that, or face war.
Following that Paul quote would mean nobody should assassinate Hitler or Stalin. After all;

“and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Therefore whoever resists the authority
resists the ordinance of God, “

I suspect you would say that Hitler was a usurper and not existing under the appointment of God. And that killing him and every nazi you can find is fine. I simply argue the same about monarchs. They are usurpers. And we need to face it, Paul was speaking in his own time and place. He was a Roman citizen, and wanted to make sure he was not accused of sedition. Probably as simple as that.


37 posted on 07/13/2018 12:05:49 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: DesertRhino
It surprised me to realize you don't accept that Paul's writings are authoritative, inspired NT Scripture --- authoritative for the same reason the whole Bible is, because they are God-breathed.

I don't see how the exclusion of Paul but the inclusion of the Gospels could be a coherent point of view. We don't have any guarantee that ANY of the Books of the Bible are Holy Scriptures, except that the Church, acting under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has told us so.

That is, the same Church that had the authority to canonize the four Gospels, had exactly the same authority to canonize the other 23 books of the NT as well.

How is it you accept the Gospels, but not the others?

Besides, Paul was personally instructed by Jesus Christ after His resurrection.

40 posted on 07/13/2018 1:30:15 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: DesertRhino

First of all, if Paul was wrong about that bit, Jesus would have had him incinerated in public, literally, and then threatened everyone into ignoring his words with the clear implication that anyone who heeds Paul’s words would meet the exact same fate, as God the father would not tolerate anyone speaking falsehoods about what he said under their authority. He certainly wouldn’t have let it into the New Testament, which alongside the Bible was authored by God himself.

Second of all, Stalin and Hitler were NOT appointed by God at all, considering they tried to exterminate Christians and made clear they adhered to atheism. This isn’t even remotely the same thing as the monarchies, who at least DID adhere to Christianity at least in public, if not in private.

Lastly, I’m not at all fond of Jefferson due to his supporting the Jacobins even after most of his contemporaries learned they were very bad news by the September Massacres. Besides, he also gutted the bible even more than Martin Luther did and stripped Jesus of any of his divine aspects, making him little different from the Dalai Lama. He can rot in a ditch for all I care.


41 posted on 07/20/2018 4:12:27 AM PDT by otness_e
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