Posted on 08/08/2018 10:35:21 AM PDT by MountainWalker
The wife and I own a log cabin weekend/vacation home in WV which is running on treated well water. We also own another lot diagonally down and directly across the street on which we built a guest house/airbnb rental that we're making great money on.
Instead of drilling another well when we built that house, we had another water line dug from our house down to that, and it's working great. It's a private dirt road, so we had no problem trenching the new water line across the street.
A neighbor owns a hunting cabin on a lot diagonally across and up the road from us, about 75-100 yards away, that we've decided to buy. We'd like to remodel it and make it a nice couple's retreat as a second airbnb rental, but I need to do something about the water system to make it a little more rentable. I'm also trying to keep costs down.
It's a 1br, 1bath cabin with a 150gal water tank under the crawl space below the house. The shower uses a propane tankless water heater. It currently has no septic tank and uses a composting toilet.
The first problem is that the current owners said they pull the water pump out so that it doesn't freeze over during the winter months. My contractor says that if I replace the flimsy plastic crawl space covers with Durarock and keep the house heated to 50 degrees, the pump won't freeze.
The second problem is that 150 gallons doesn't seem like much capacity, especially if we put in a septic system and traditional toilet. For the john, I was thinking of installing an incinerating toilet which would make it more sanitary and appealing to renters (also about $2000 cheaper than putting in a septic). Plus I could vent it into the crawl space, which I suppose would provide additional warmth to the water tank area in the winter. I suppose I could also just make it a warmer weather seasonal rental.
As far as keeping the water tank filled, I could either run a hose up there every so often to refill it myself, but I'd be worried that if I don't get out there for a few weekends in between some heavy water using renters, it might run dry.
I was also wondering if I should maybe try to install a gutter system that I could pipe directly into the water tank. I don't know what kind of filtration system I'd need to add to screen out any roof sediment or other stuff that might gum up the pump. The water wouldn't be as potable as treated water from my well, but as long as it's clean enough to use for dishes and bathing, that's all I'd need.
Any help and advice is appreciated!
Get a pump operated keg and use your imagination when it comes to connecting it to a sink and faucet.
You could install a second gray water tank to capture shower runoff and rainwater to use to flush the toilet. That would reduce your total potable water consumption, but by the time you price out all the re-plumbing necessary you may be further ahead just sinking a well.
I think you can install a bypass system on the roof down pipe...it sends to waste the first few gallons so the rest of the roof water is clean.
Called a "first flush diversion device"
How far down is the water table? Shallow wells (< 32 feet) are easy to put down.
The well at our house across the street is over 300’ deep.
Sorry, easy if the soil allows it. Not for clay or rock.
hmm, thanks for that tip. Might be something to check out.
Yikes! We are spoiled up here in Michigan. I can drive a 20’ pipe into the sandy soil and get plenty of clean water.
Gotta think a cistern would be cheaper than a well. How picky is the county health dept? Good luck!
Not very picky - it’s WV. :-P
You can get those totes on craigslist all the time. Make sure you get one that had foodstuff in it. Don't take the seller's word for it. They have labels on them when their new and the labels last quite a while. They come in increments of 55 gallons with 275 gallons being most common. Preference is to have it in the winter sun and summer shade.
Those 12 vdc RV water pumps will lift 10-12 feet which means you can keep the pump indoors. Then you run an RV water hose from the pump inlet to the tank outlet. Run that hose through a piece of 6 inch insulated flex duct. Available at homedepot/lowes, it's typically used for HVAC. Attach/prop the outdoor end up against the tank leaving a small outlet for air to escape. Put a computer fan at the indoor end of the duct to blow warm air down the duct towards the tank, hence needing the gap/outlet to allow air to flow. I've used this in temps down to the high teens without it freezing. I also have an agricultural tank heater that keeps the tank water from freezing.
Forget the flush toilet or at least use an RV type toilet as they use a fraction of the water. Guys pee outdoors. Get a shut off to put at the shower head or get an RV shower head with a shut off. When you shower, get wet, turn water off, soap/scrub, turn water on to rinse, repeat for hair. You'll have to teach your renters this stuff.
Essentially what you're setting up is a mini water distribution system to 3 nodes. I recommend that you engage a registered engineer to review your plans and if necessary revise them. I know this is private and all that but there are standards and if something screws up a customer could be harmed by water born bad things. Get a PE stamped design and you reduce your liability from design issues. Plus, there could be state or county permitting required for your distribution system and if so you'll need the stamped design for the application. For that matter, your insurance company may require a stamped design or even if they don't require this could give you a lower rate for having one.
For water supply needs, assume 35 gallons per day per person domestic use and 50 gallons per day per person surge capacity. This covers drinking, cooking, shower, washing and sanitary. The surge rate probably includes water for a nice little garden, which is actually the best use for rain water catchments. For the existing neighbors house you'd buy, DurRock would certainly be better than the plastic skirt. I have no idea if the increased heat retention would be sufficient to keep the water pipes from freezing. If it is not sufficient then a low cost way to get some heat into this space is to use a bus heater, which is cheap. Rig it up by moving its electrical stuff from the heater box to a separate NEMA 4 box for environmental and insect isolation. Get a relay and cheap temperature control to turn on/off the blower motor and a hot water pump that recycles water from the hot water heater in the house. You can probably get all this stuff from Grainger or McMaster. The blower motor is not going to be outdoor rated but will last awhile. When it does go out replace it with a TEFC motor. Again, this is Grainger supply stuff.
bkmk
Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like rainwater harvesting might be a little challenging, and like anything else, I need to weigh the cost/benefits over putting in a cistern or digging another well.
I’m starting to think that I should just beef up my water holding capacity since tanks are cheap, and I can refill water through a hose from across the street as necessary.
My biggest concerns are just making sure 1) renters don’t run out of water while I’m not there and 2) the pump doesn’t freeze over in the winter. It should be pretty easy to add additional water holding capacity and sounds like there are a couple of good ideas in this thread for keeping it warm enough in there in the frigid months. Or, I could just close it down for the winter.
Thanks for the other tips as far as venting an incinerating toilet. Gray water is currently run off, for those who were asking.
If you build a shed and insulate it well enough, a 100 watt bulb is enough to keep things above freezing. If you can find a 100 watt bulb, that is...
Kinda contradicts the scientific recommendation that we should drink a half gallon of water per day doesn't it? If I had to drink that water I would have puked......LOL!
Flash forward, my dad and step-mom had a cabin just north of Mio and our well there was the best tasting fresh water one could ever experience. We would bottle it and bring it back to Detroit every weekend........
Sailors use watermakers powered by solar panels. You just need a source of water to start with (sailors use salt water), run it through the machine, and, you have fresh water.
Check this out. ...Just the results of a Google search. All kinds of information from all kinds of different people and sources. One of them has GOT to have a solution for your situation.
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