HELL. Is it real? What does the Bible really say?

Sermon Index ^ | David Wilkerson

[Mark17]

I have always thought, that even in the Lake of Fire, the spirit of God will be there too, and maybe that is one of the tortures they will endure.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Rev 14:10

[Mark17]

I don’t like the word ‘Hell’ as describing an eternal destination. Biblically, Hell is a waiting place for condemned souls, but the final judgment is eternal death, in which body and soul together are cast out of the presence of God.

Yes, Hell (Hades) is a holding cell, as they await the Lake of Fire. Just MY opinion, but I think their suffering in Hades, is equal to their suffering in the Lake of Fire. It’s just that Hades is temporary, the Lake of Fire is permanent. I don’t understand why the vast majority of the people of the world, choose to go to the Lake of Fire.

[metmom]

If soul annihilation is what unbelievers face, then what is the point of the rich man suffering at all in his place of torment? Why not just be annihilated on death?

And why did Jesus talk about them as a fact? He never said it was a parable.

[rollo tomasi]

Let us see; God created us as a representation of His own function. Disobedience, haughtiness, and pride mess that up quite a bit. As a Primary Source, God as every right to exercise discretion. Read Job and there is this:

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

God JUDGES righteously, Praise the Lord. Some do not have volition such as the mentally ill, babies, those who never heard of "the Law", God's will like the Pharoah He uses and Blesses, however, most have volition.

You come from that ignorant and entitled position of the likes of Bertrand Russell who ignored what a Primary Source is (I AM) and how the Secondary Source should respect that.

Christ is the bridge that acts as a solder that acts as a graft to repair the damage in the relationship between I AM and man (Who thinks they are I AM).

Who are you to deny God's discretion?

We are of limited intellect compared to God, however, Scripture points out how God does/commands certain ways we find repulsive. Do you find God commanding killing babies, women, children, and men monstrous? He commanded that several times, the same way He easily judges the secondary source who opposes His will as well uses discretion upon those who we think are unrighteous.

[HarleyD]

I have always thought, that even in the Lake of Fire, the spirit of God will be there too, and maybe that is one of the tortures they will endure.

I agree though I don't understand it. But the scriptures are pretty clear that God is omnipresent. I think it's like the rich man being able to see the glories that they refuse to acknowledge but never partaking.

[Mark17]

I agree though I don't understand it. But the scriptures are pretty clear that God is omnipresent. I think it's like the rich man being able to see the glories that they refuse to acknowledge but never partaking.

This is one those subjects, that nice to talk about occasionally, but in the long scheme of eternity, isn’t all that important. That’s why I am certainly not dogmatic on it. I do not, however, accept soul annilhilation.

[cuban leaf]

Yes, I turned from ECT nine years ago. I’ve done even more reading on the subject since. All of what you said I’ve come across before in one form or another.

No need to “re-argue” for me. Just go to http://jewishnotgreek.com/

It’s all covered there.

Also, an excellent book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Fire-That-Consumes-Historical-Punishment/dp/1608999300/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547907311&sr=8-1&keywords=fire+that+consumes

[cuban leaf]

If soul annihilation is what unbelievers face, then what is the point of the rich man suffering at all in his place of torment? Why not just be annihilated on death?

And why did Jesus talk about them as a fact? He never said it was a parable.

---

Jesus didn’t always call his stories “parables”. “Parable” is a label we use to describe his stories used to make a point.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man is the last of several back to back parables. And A really good rundown is right here:
https://www.jeremyandchristine.com/articles/lazarus.html

It is a condensation of a longer version here: https://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html (three times as long)

Or, a short version in its entirety below from here: http://jewishnotgreek.com/

What about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16?
The teaching of Conditional Immortality means that the soul of man is finally destroyed on the Day of Judgment-at the end of this age. Therefore, technically speaking, this scripture has no bearing on this doctrine.

However, as a side note, there is sufficient reason for understanding this passage of scripture as a parable.

The previous four stories were all parables (Luke 15:4, 15:8, 15:11, 16:1) so this story is obviously in a long string of parables.

The parable in Luke 16:1, which He just told them, also began with the exact same words “There was a certain rich man,” (Luke 16:1). That story, “the parable of the shrewd accountant,” is clearly a parable (though not labeled as such). These two stories both have to do with “mammon” (money) and the misuse of it. If the first is clearly a parable, why not the second, for it is in the exact same section of scripture?

The point of the parable is at the end, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Luke 16:31). He told them this parable to make the point that, “No matter what anyone tells them (i.e. the Pharisees), they will never believe in me because they refuse to believe even Moses and the prophets.” Jesus just said money was their god (verse 14). He made a point and backs it up with a parable. The ultimate point of this parable is that their unbelief is due to money–not lack of evidence.

Matthew tells us, “and without a parable spake he not unto them.” (Matthew 13:34)

The Greek word used in this passage is not Gehenna (hell), but it is Hades (temporary abode of the dead). It is a different Greek word. A word that most translators mistranslate as “hell.”

Note: For an excellent study on this passage and Hades–visit www.sheol-know.org. Remember, Hades will be itself emptied and destroyed one day:

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (Rev 20:14)

The great nineteenth century Hebrew Christian scholar Alfred Edersheim flatly states it is a parable:

“The Parable itself is strictly of the Pharisees and their relation to the “publicans and sinners” whom they despised...their Pharisaic righteousness, which left poor Lazarus at their door to the dogs and to famine, not bestowing in him aught from their supposed rich festive banquets...it will be necessary in the interpretation of this Parable to keep in mind, that its Parabolic details must not be exploited, nor doctrines of any kind derived from them, either as to the character of the other world.”

(The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Alfred Edersheim, Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody Mass., 1993, p. 667)

Inter-Varsity Press scholar Craig Keener and many other conservative commentators also call it a parable:

“Some Jewish parables, including the rabbinic one mentioned at the beginning of this section, named a character or two...But this parable specifies only economic inversion.”

(Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary New Testament, Downers Grove, Inter Varsity Press, 1993, p. 236)

The list could go on and on, but suffice it to say that there are sufficient grounds for looking at this as a parable. Either way, let it be said again, that the teaching of Conditional Immortality means that the soul of man is finally destroyed on the “Day of Judgment”-at the end of this age (Revelation 20:14. Therefore, technically speaking, this scripture has no bearing on the doctrine of Conditional Immortality, the destruction of the lost. Many Evangelicals who hold to Conditional Immortality also hold different views on the intermediate state and this paper does not discuss the intermediate state. It is also important to remember that if Jesus suffered on the cross for about six hours–we have every reason to believe that the lost will suffer no more than the same amount of time that Jesus suffered.

NOTE: For great information on the intermediate state of “Sheol”–visit www.sheol-know.org.