Were the Nazis Socialists?

Snopes ^ | David Emery

[z3n]

“Nazis were German white nationalists”

~~~

This is quite true, culturally and within the whole cosmology of their pathos/mythos.

That doesn’t change the facts about their political and economic system. It’s true that Italy had the fascists. If I’m not mistaken that’s where the term originated. It doesn’t change the fact that drastic forms of socialism require either a very slow progression (boiling the frog) or hardcore levels of totalitarianism, or both, in order to keep it from being rejected.

[vpintheak]

What a complete crock of bull!

[John S Mosby]

Proven matter of demographics in Weimar. And... the Horst Wessel Leid as the Nazi national Anthem... for a Nazi punk shot in the face by a Communist. Die Fahne Hoch (the flags raised high.....)

“Raise the flag! The ranks tightly closed!
The SA marches with calm, steady step.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.”

Comrades... Brownshirts who recruited most of their number from the workers who were Communists. And therefore the rhetoric and politics emulated and said much the same things as the Communists— just a little to the Right of them... but still Re-distributive and a Worker’s Party. And Hitler consolidated them pushed them aside. Leftists murdering further Left Leftists.

[Phlyer]

Who controlled the means of production?(Emphasis added)

This is the key. Often people talk about who "owned" the means of production, but it is control that matters.

My explanation is like this:
- Under "fascism," the state tells you what you must produce, how much you may charge for it, how much you must pay your workers and which ones to employ, and which suppliers you must use (including how much to pay them). But they give you a piece of paper saying that you 'own' your business.
- Under "socialism", the state takes back that piece of paper.
- Under "communism" (which never happens), the state tears up the piece of paper.

There is no other difference that matters. All are on the 'tyranny' (or 'collectivist') end of the spectrum, of which anarchy is the other extreme.

[gaijin]

Patton was right. We should have joined with the remaining Wehrmachtbat the end of the war to take out Bolshevik scum who were our ‘allies’.

YUP..!!!!! 100% agree.

[wardaddy]

I agree with the author more or less

Claiming Nazis were pure leftists is poppycock

Always has been

But our so called conservative talking heads sure like to convince themselves and the ignorant of it otherwise

Nazis were Dictatorship meets Nationalism meets Racial purity meets private industry and state controlled industry

And Nazi excess more than anything else even more than slavery has made it almost impossible for us today to deal with inconvenient racial and religious empirical fact/hostility and the invasion on our southern border

In the old days we used the circular paradigm to describe ideologies

Where Authoritarianism like Nazis and Facists meet Pol Pot and Stalin and their Totalitarianism

Makes more sense than the linear model

[Reily]

Prior to the purge of Rohm they were a German nationalist version of the Communists in economic policy. Rohm’s faction which included Goebbels were the “red” Browns the other side the ‘white” Browns. (You can go back to accounts of times and see them referred that way!) Hitler actually didn’t care one way or the other he just wanted power. The “Red” Browns wanted a full “social revolution” similar in idea to what the Bolsheviks did in Russia. Rohm saw his Brownshirt SA replacing the professional Wehrmacht as a sort of of “People’s Army”. Those who were adamantly opposed to such an overturning of German society were blocking Hitler and were rightly so horrified of the Communists, (Almost next door they could see what the communists had done in Russia. German had a lot of Russian exiles with stories!) They were willing to cut a political deal. (A deal with the devil it turned out!) Hitler cut a deal with the Army leadership & the anti- communist opposition. Hitler -’Back me I will help you take care of the communists’. This opposition thought they then could control Hitler and maneuver him out of power if he proved problematic. It looked at first like it was working Hitler purged Rohm & the SA leadership. (Goebbels learned where the bread was buttered & who was doing it so he got in line!). The Hitler pulled a fast one and out-maneuvered the “dealmakers”. The rest is sad history.

[wardaddy]

The Nazi state did not control the entire economy anywhere near as a totalitarian Marxist state would

Small business except Jewish were left alone

Industry pertinent to the war effort worked with the government

And for Speers Nazis glorification architecture

[wardaddy]

There is more truth in the notion that Nazis are Hegelian than the notion adored here that Nazis were the same as Marxists

[Reily]

The Nazis appropriated Fascism. Originally they were national leftists instead of international leftists. To see the difference between them and Fascism read Italian & Spanish fascist political writers & Oswald Mosley (https://www.oswaldmosley.com/). Nazism after the Rohm purge is really better described as Hitlerism.

[Pelham]

“THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH by William L. Shirer”

An excellent book. It should be required reading for those who believe that they know what Nazism was.

Shirer was able to interview people who knew Hitler long before his rise to political power. And of course the Nazi party existed before Hitler joined it.

George Mosse’s “Nazi Culture” is another worthwhile book on the subect.

From my reading Nazism doesn’t fit on the usual Left-Right political spectrum, and those who like to argue that it was Right or Left have little actual knowledge of Nazism. It was sui generis, an odd mixture of German mysticism, the nation as religion, Wandervogels, a grab bag of elements used by a criminal political regime that had gained control of Germany.

[Pollster1]

What the evidence shows, on the contrary, is that Nazi Party leaders paid mere lip service to socialist ideals on the way to achieving their one true goal: raw, totalitarian power.

Just like today's democrats and socialists.

[wardaddy]

Jonah Goldberg is a worthless sack of shite

[wardaddy]

I just don’t agree that Nazism is Marxism

That’s just ignorant

Nazism was a combination of some right wing political ideology, racial politics and mythology and a certain but not nearly total level of state control of business

[MrEdd]

You used this phrase “during the war.”
Within the context of this discussion, it has no relevance of any sort.

[DesertRhino]

Nazis were socialist. The collective reigned supreme over the individual. The government allowed private ownership of business but demanded control of its efforts, and exercised full control of its access to resources.

There’s a dead end crowd that sees them as an anti-communist bulwark and rushes to make excuses for them, but they were full on, capitalism hating, socialist society waving a red flag.

[PapaBear3625]

It comes down to letting the Marxists define the Right as “anybody who opposed the Communist Party”. So some group which was similarly in favor of an all-powerful government controlling the economy, but just wanted a different set of leaders, would be “radical right wing”.

[Reily]

Never said it was Marxism. The are other forms of socialism.
Marx fought the other flavors tooth & nail in labor/workers rights conferences in late 19th century Europe. Only his flavor was the correct socialism! (Was there any doubt!) There is a quote from then “Howling gigantic curses” - was a description of Marx’s behavior at these conferences.

Bottom line: Whatever flavor they still call for state control over private property & private life to one degree or another.

Though I am not sure if the pre-Hitler National Socialist German Workers party ever referenced Marx or not in their calls for socialism

[Disambiguator]

Given that Nazism is traditionally held to be an extreme right-wing ideology

IOW, everyone is brainwashed.

[wardaddy]

I doubt seriously they referenced Marx considering they equated Jews with Bolsheviks and Mensheviks