Posted on 04/03/2019 3:01:09 AM PDT by PigRigger
My Daughter has to do a paper arguing against a proposed Amendment to the Constitution to address the modifying of the second Amendment to read "to keep and bear arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed."
I know FReeper's are a wealth of knowledge, so I am looking for references:
> Arguing against the modifying a currently existing Amendment
> Arguing against the adding of an Amendment negating or infringing upon another
> Arguing against the the premise that the right was only intended for those part of a well regulated militia
Any references to court cases addressing something similar that have already been decided would be great as well!
Thanks!
Thise who would trade freedom for security deserve neither.
Add:
Nothing in this amendment shall be construed to derogate or diminish the inalienable rights, liberties and privileges secured by this second amendment, of the People and Militia to possess and bear arms and carry them.
“It would add five words to the Second Amendment” & dilute it to be meaningless in its original intent.
Sorry I can help just my opinion.
Several pages of the founding father’s quotes should suffice. They were pretty explicit and direct in the reasoning.
cant help
See my tag-line.
The bill of rights recognizes pre-existing natural rights. Government cannot take away the right to free speech, for example. Nor can it take away the right to self defense (which requires arms) whether from common criminals or a criminal government. There are plenty of modern examples of that last here:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
Any government that strips natural rights shows itself to be criminal, to have abrogated the Constitution, and thus their authority is void.
Well regulated meant then - and now, well trained. Not regulated in today's sense of the phrase. Numerous sources discuss this.
Existence and therefore the right to exist and therefore the right to defend existence is one of the most basic human rights.
On the militia argument,
The term “regulated” applied to clocks means “accurate in keeping time”. It made sense, particularly in 18th Century armies, to have to pay a lot of attention to how well soldiers could operate in massed formations. Soldiers had to be drilled to load, aim, and fire as one unit. You do NOT want the rifle next to you to be firing (and emitting a shower of sparks) while you are pouring gunpowder into your musket. Everybody had to do every step together with no screwups.
The idea that a people who started a revolution when the British tried to confiscate privately owned arms, resulting in the battles of Lexington and Concord Bridge, were not recognizing an individual right with 2A, is patently absurd.
**Existence and therefore the right to exist and therefore the right to defend existence is one of the most basic human rights.**
Well said, and may I add, those rights are given to us by God. :)
Carry on.
First and foremost, it is nonsensical. Why would the we need an amendment to allow the militia to keep and bear arms? Does that apply to the Armed Services as well? If not, why?
Further, the preamble to the Bill of Rights explicitly states, “The Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution expressed a desire in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.”
IOW, the second amendment clarifies that the congress has no power to restrict gun ownership.
Finally, Hamilton argues in Federalist 84 that the BoR itself was dangerous as it would contain exceptions to powers not granted - i.e. the federal government was not granted the power to regulate firearms. By adopting the amendment, even with the preamble above, the impression is given that, but for that amendment, congress could indeed regulate gun ownership. History has proven him correct.
Summation - changing the second amendment to be less restrictive as to the class of persons whose rights may not be infringed, does not grant the government the power to regulate firearms - but rather if they DID have the power to do so, that a certain class of people are exempt. If the federal government wants the power to regulate gun ownership, it needs to amend Article 1, section 8 to include that power among it’s enumerated powers AND repeal the second amendment entirely.
Locke’s 2nd Treatise on Government is a good resource for pulling together what the Founders believed and exactly what they wrote in the Constitution.
https://thefederalistpapers.org/second-amendment-2/truth-2nd-amendment-ar-15s-democrats-want-hide
The Federalist Papers
Second Amendment
Truth About The 2nd Amendment And AR-15s Democrats Want to Hide
By TFPP Writer
Published February 19, 2018 at 7:00am
The Founding Fathers Explain The Second Amendment — This Says it ALLBy Brian Thomas
There’s a lot going around about the Second Amendment. Some on the left have been spreading a little rumor that it isn’t necessarily about protecting any right of the individual. Some say it doesn’t hold water compared to the government’s ideas on ensuring public safety.
Let’s not forget that the Amendment, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed,” isn’t our only clue to determine what the founders thought of the right to bear arms. They’ve left behind plenty of writings which outline the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.
Here’s just a few quotes from buckeyefirearms.org:
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…” – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
“To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.” – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” – George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.” – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787
“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” – James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
“…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” – Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.” – St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.” – Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.” – Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789
“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787
“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
“If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
Did the founders make themselves clear?
Need a definition of “militia”.
I say it is “the people”. Which makes the original Second Amendment fine the way it is.
If you define “militia” as a some sort of government body (”National Guard”) then the right to keep and hear arms against government tyranny (which is what the Second Amendment is all about) just goes right out the window.
Excellent work. That will certainly help with the report.
If the Second Amendment was intended to protect an official or what has become a de facto branch of the government’s armed forces like the libs claim, there wouldn’t be any need for it to exist in the first place.
10 U.S. Code § 246. Militia: composition and classes
"(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."
Note that. ALL able-bodied males. The militia was ALWAYS intended to mean the entire population physically capable of bearing arms.
The Militia Act of 1792 further required each such citizen to buy his own military rifle, along with a bayonet, supplies, and a quantity of ammunition.
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