Posted on 06/13/2023 12:11:43 AM PDT by ransomnote
ransomnote: Maajid Nawaz triggered the ire of the MSM (they now call him 'conspiracy theorist) by suggesting the 'pandemic' was not what it seemed to be, that the Jan 6 'attack on the capitol' was actual antifa and other instigators, and that the 2020 election was fraudulent (stolen).
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Did they murder Jews? No? Then they’re not “nazis”. Be real folks.
The Nazi Azov were murdering Russians just before this war started, so it’s not just Jews they will murder for their political ends.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
Bandera remains a highly controversial figure in Ukraine.[14][15] Many Ukrainians hail him as a role model hero[16][17] or as a martyred liberation fighter,[6] while other Ukrainians, particularly in the south and east, condemn him as a fascist[18] Nazi collaborator[16] who was, together with his followers, responsible for massacres of Polish and Jewish civilians during World War II.[19][9][20][21][22][8]
On 22 January 2010, the president of Ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko, awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine, which was widely condemned. The award was subsequently annulled in 2011.
Friggen huge belly laugh imagining the Ukraine’s or the Russians laying claim to the phase “Master Race”!
My tax money is fighting NAZIs.
Invading under the pretext protect their kinsmen.
Only to rape and murder.
And annex territory.
There are no more neo-nazis in the Ukrainian Army than there are in the French or American Army.
And far less so than the Imperial Russian Army.
Welp, the IMperial Russian Army ended in 1917 with the Revolution, so that was before the rise of Germany’s Nazi party.
I knew an American employed to translate for Russians - American businesses. He said the Russians had been taught in school that America had not sacrificed or fought much in WWII, but that America sent canned food etc. What a shock that was to me!
But the Russians did fight the Nazis and in one instance, the citizens were called upon to engage German soldiers in hand-to-hand combat in hopes of thwarting the German attempt to reach Moscow. Bitter fighting. Imagine their shock if they realized people like you consider them Nazis, more so than the actual Azov Nazis.
You can try to wish it away and insist that Russia is the ‘real’ Nazi regime, but history exposes you as hideously wrong.
Nazis were German-supremacists.
The Azov members are Slavs.
The Kremlin calls anyone who does not want to be under the Kremlin’s thumb a Nazi.
You believe some unknown who posts on twitter?
Ransomnote, there’s a person on here who informed me that, “Russia has, is, and always will be nazi.” I won’t name names, but they’re quite delusional.
This is a good source for Nazi info and specifically in Ukraine, from our intelligence.
Hitler’s Shadow
Excerpt (link to full publication at the end):
CHAPTER FIVE
Collaborators: Allied Intelligence and the
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists
Background
The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), founded in 1929 by western Ukrainians from East Galicia, called for an independent and ethnically homogenous Ukraine.
Its prime enemy was Poland, which then controlled the ethnically mixed regions of East Galicia and Volhynia. The OUN assassinated Polish Interior Minister Bronislaw Pieracki in 1934. Among those tried, convicted, and imprisoned for the murder in 1936 were young OUN activists Stephan Bandera and Mykola Lebed. The court sentenced them to death, and the state commuted the sentences to life imprisonment.2. The convicted
Ukrainians escaped when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.
After the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 awarded Eastern Galicia and Volhynia to
the USSR, the OUN turned its hopes toward the Germans. In late 1939 the Germans housed OUN leaders in Krakow, then the capital of the German-occupied General Government. In 1940 the OUN split over political strategy. The older wing under Andrei Melnik (OUN/M) aimed to work closely with the Germans while waiting patiently for Ukraine’s independence. Bandera’s wing (OUN/B) was a militant fascist organization that wanted Ukrainian independence immediately.
After the Germans invaded the USSR on June 22, 1941, Bandera’s teams
moved into East Galicia. On reaching the East Galician capital city of Lwów on
June 30, 1941, his closest deputy Jaroslav Stetsko proclaimed a “sovereign and united” Ukrainian state in the name of Bandera and the OUN/B. Stetsko was to be the new prime minister and Lebed, having trained at a Gestapo center in Zakopane, the new minister for security.3
Determined to exploit Ukraine for themselves, the Germans insisted that Bandera and Stetsko rescind this proclamation. When they refused, they, along with other OUN/B leaders, were arrested. Bandera and Stetsko were held initially in Berlin under house arrest. After January 1942 they were sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp but in comparatively comfortable confinement. Administrative and senior auxiliary police positions in western Ukraine went to Melnik’s group.4
German security police formations, meanwhile, were ordered to arrest and
kill Bandera loyalists in western Ukraine for fear that they would rise against German rule.5. After Lebed escaped, he assumed control of the OUN/B in western Ukraine, which now operated underground. Eventually the OUN/B dominated the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), a guerrilla force originally formed in 1942 to engage all political and ethnic enemies including Germans and Soviets. Eastern Ukrainians later claimed that the Bandera’s group took over the UPA by assassinating the original leaders.6
By 1944 the terms “UPA” and “Baderovsty” became interchangeable, though not all UPA fighters came from the OUN/B. The OUN/B relationship
with the Germans in western Ukraine was complicated. On the one hand, it fought German rule, and the Gestapo put a price on Lebed’s head. On the other, it pursued its own ethnic cleansing policies complementing German aims.
A Banderist proclamation in April 1941 claimed that “Jews in the USSR
constitute the most faithful support of the ruling Bolshevik regime and the vanguard of Muscovite imperialism in the Ukraine.”7
Stetsko, even while under house arrest in July 1941, said that “I…fully appreciate the undeniably harmful and hostile role of the Jews, who are helping Moscow to enslave Ukraine….I therefore support the destruction of the Jews and the expedience of bringing German methods of exterminating Jewry to Ukraine….”8
In Lwów, a leaflet warned Jews that, “You welcomed Stalin with flowers [when the Soviets occupied East Galicia in 1939]. We will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet.”9 At a July 6, 1941, meeting in Lwów, Bandera loyalists determined that Jews “have to be treated harshly…. We must finish them off…. Regarding the Jews, we will adopt any methods that lead to their destruction.”10
Indeed pogroms in East Galicia in the war’s first days killed perhaps 12,000 Jews.11
Back in Berlin, Stetsko reported it all to Bandera.12
Nazi authorities mobilized Ukrainians into auxiliary police units, some of
which cleared ghettos. Few such auxiliary police belonged to Bandera’s group,
which operated independently. But Banderist guerrillas in western Ukraine often killed Jews.
Historian Yehuda Bauer writes that Banderists “killed all the Jews
they could find,” surely “many thousands” in all.13
Moshe Maltz, a Jew living in hiding in Sokal, heard from a friendly Polish contact “about 40 Jews who were hiding out in the woods near his home … the Bandera gangs came and murdered them all.”14
When the Soviets reconquered East Galicia in November 1944, there were
few Jews there left alive. But Maltz recorded that, “When the Bandera gangs
seize a Jew, they consider it a prize catch. The ordinary Ukrainians feel the same way….they all want to participate in the heroic act of killing a Jew. They literally slash Jews to pieces with their machetes….”15
When the war turned against the Germans in early 1943, leaders of Bandera’s
group believed that the Soviets and Germans would exhaust each other, leaving
an independent Ukraine as in 1918. Lebed proposed in April to “cleanse the
entire revolutionary territory of the Polish population,” so that a resurgent Polish
state would not claim the region as in 1918.16
Ukrainians serving as auxiliary policemen for the Germans now joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA).
Maltz recorded that “Bandera men … are not discriminating about who they
kill; they are gunning down the populations of entire villages.… Since there are
hardly any Jews left to kill, the Bandera gangs have turned on the Poles. They are literally hacking Poles to pieces. Every day … you can see the bodies of Poles, with wires around their necks, floating down the river Bug.”17 On a single day, July 11, 1943, the UPA attacked some 80 localities killing perhaps 10,000 Poles.18
As the Red Army moved into western Ukraine (it liberated Lwów in July
1944) the UPA resisted the Soviet advance with full-scale guerrilla war. Maltz
noted that, “Most of the Bandera gangs, men and women, from the villages …
are still hiding out in the woods, armed to the teeth, and hold up Soviet soldiers.
The Soviets may be the rulers of the towns, but the Bandera gangs reign supreme in the surrounding countryside, especially at night. The Russians…have their hands full…. Hardly a day passes without a Soviet official being killed….”19
HITLER’S SHADOW
Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence, and the Cold War
Richard Breitman and Norman J.W. Goda
Published by the National Archives
https://www.archives.gov/files/iwg/reports/hitlers-shadow.pdf
Bkmk
Yeah just like the word “racist”, “nazi” has become a meaningless word.
I’m not sure I get your point - that was nearly 80 years ago.
Spot on...
You don’t have to murder a Jew to be a National Socialist (aka Nazi). It’s all about being a superior being. To the Uke Nazi’s they are superior to ethnic Russians, and those are the ones they murder.
As Americans, we do not need to be financially supporting Nazi’s or any war for that matter that does not directly affect our national security. This is a European war, let the Europeans finance it.
We have enough internal problems that are not being dealt with.
“I’m not sure I get your point - that was nearly 80 years ago.”
_________________________________________________
I’m not surprised you don’t get my point, because you’re the one who made this absolutely ridiculous comment:
“Nazis were German-supremacists.
The Azov members are Slavs.”
Hahaha! Ridiculous. They’re neo-Nazi. Are neo-Nazis, Nazi? Of course they are. And people with their head in a hole in the ground don’t want to hear it.
Too bad:
Dutch to Make Public the Files on Accused Nazi Collaborators
Historians and archivists are excited and concerned about providing unfettered public online access to investigators’ files that have been restricted since the end of World War II.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/25/arts/dutch-files-accused-nazi-collaborators.html
Yes, too bad indeed:
‘Now, all of you are Azov’: ‘openly neo-Nazi’ Ukrainian delegation meets Congress, tours U.S.
Originally published: October 5, 2022
Excerpts:
This September, a delegation of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi-led Azov movement arrived in the United States, at a time when myth making about the far-right network’s “depoliticization” had reached a fever pitch. By this time, the New York Times had ceased referring to Azov as “openly neo-Nazi,” and was referring to the ultra-nationalist organization as “celebrated.”
Since news broke of Azov’s U.S. tour, more information has come to light about the ultra-nationalist organization’s outreach in the country, including efforts by Azov to reverse Congress’ ban on supplying it with arms and training.
The Azov delegation included three veterans of the regiment formerly holed up in the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol. They were led by Giorgi Kuparashvili, the only fighter not taken prisoner by the Russians.
From top to bottom Rep Pete Sessions Sen Todd Young and Sen Rick Scott meeting with Giorgi Kuparashvili red Vladyslav Zhaivoronok white and Artur Lypka yellow from the Azov Regiment
According to Kuparashvili, a cofounder and instructor of the Azov Regiment, his delegation met over fifty members of Congress, far more than anyone has realized.
Among those who showed up to greet Azov on Capitol Hill was Rep. Adam Schiff, the California Democrat who spent the Trump era leading Russiagate theatrics and clamored for shipments of offensive U.S. weapons to Ukraine.
...Earlier this year, Stanford’s Center for International Security and Cooperation (CISAC) published a detailed report on the “Azov Movement… a far-right nationalist network.” Michael McFaul directs the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, of which the CISAC is part. He apparently took no issue with the neo-Nazi symbol projected behind him.
The German NAZI's were nationalizing socialists, and so were the Russians nationalizing socialists - they were competitors in disagreement about the definition of ownership - during a period leading up to World War II, followed by the Russians imposing a global, murderous policy of nationalizing socialism that produced communist Cuba, communist North Korea, communist China, communist Vietnam and some other communist also-rans, plus, both cultural and social chaos everywhere that Stalin sought to make "the west" pay a lot for energy.
In Ukraine, the Asov Movement "NAZI's" are actors who are not apparently resolved to enforce nationalizing socialism. But, they do appear to be in agreement about being very angry about Moscow's intentions, to the point of some members taking revenge and being obsessed with having control over the matter.
While Moscow and Russian communists, socialists, plus some Rusich NAZI's still favor imposing nationalizing socialism beyond the borders of Russia and also having control, and that, too often: ruthlessly.
Yet, in Russia, there are many good people who are not interested in domination that overrules their countrymen and their neighbors. I am very much interested in THEIR survival and well-being. THEY are whom, Ukrainians can and must work with in order to learn how to get along together. And, THEY are against whom the nationalizing socialists among Russians, are fighting a civil war, by expression in Ukraine - as a method of instilling fear in Russians.
I believe that Moscow should just plain QUIT its annex-ploitations. I believe that Ukraine should ABANDON its notions of getting revenge for Moscow's blundering.
I believe that Ukraine has much bigger problems trying to somehow work itself free from the immoral depravity that has become part of "western" dealmaking that promotes homosexuality and human genital amputation as "neighborly love."
I believe that Ukraine should commence to work its way free from being required to fly a homosexual so-called "rainbow flag" in order to be heard, receive anything, make a deal with another country.
But for now, Ukraine is wounded and willing to resist Russia, while Russia is willing to bombard in order to take what it can.
BTW, a friend of mine is the granddaughter of a Russian KGB General; both being Jews. Many friends of mine, fought against NAZI Germany.
I know what a NAZI is, and the war in Ukraine is not about Russia fighting NAZI's.
“are neo-Nazis, Nazi?”
No.
neo-Nazis are white-supremacist gangs with little to no political or economic policies, and no clue on organization (besides the KKK). This is just like the black-supremacist black panthers etc.
The Nazis were a specific form of fascism, focusing on nationalizing and centralizing business and society as a whole to the glorification of the state and led by a group of cut-throats, with a specific leader. The Nazis were a sub-branch of fascism that added the “race” element.
And their “race” prejudice included hatred of “white” Slavs, etc.
The UPA were vicious Ukrainian nationalists who were eliminated in joint operations between the USSR and communist Poland forces.
That happened 80 years ago.
You trying to label today’s Ukrainians for the sins of their grand or great-grandfathers is just silly — should you be blamed for the sins of your great-grandfathers? Or alternatively be praised for their actions?
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