Just Say Yes, Patrick

Out There | June 16, 2023

[SamAdams76]

"Great potatoes Mrs. Green."

Nice try, Patrick.

Women marrying up have it comparatively easy compared to men.

If women are pretty and show a desire to dutifully keep house and bear children for their socioeconomically superior husbands-to-be, they are generally accepted into their higher status family. Even if they do not have a dowry to bring to the table.

However, it is much different for men

Men marrying up is usually seen as a defeat for the woman with regard to her affluent family. A man of inferior socioeconomic status must really impress in order to be accepted.

Being a regional VP for a national car tire company does not get it done. Nor does being store manager of a WalMart that grosses $3 million a day in sales ($1.1 billion annual).

If the aspiring man's face goes blank when the dinner talk changes to the novels of William Faulkner or the plight of the Kurds in Mesopotamia, he is deemed a loser by his soon to be in-law family.

The young woman who loves this ambitious social-climbing man finds herself in an eternal struggle to get him accepted by her hard to please uppity family.

She is constantly whispering to her man the proper responses as he is getting mercilessly grilled by her very demanding parents, siblings, and other family members, in order to test his suitability to join the family that is much superior to him with regard to wealth, education and leisure time.

It's a valiant effort that the young woman makes for her socially inferior man. However, her man usually cannot measure up in some way or another. To the rest of the family, he comes across as hopelessly pathetic, pussy-whipped and cringy, no matter how earnestly he attempts to impress them with his desire to fit in.

Maybe men should just focus on women who are lower than he in socioeconomic status. This way, he maintains his alpha status and self respect.

[SamAdams76]

[redangus]

Or maybe he should just make it clear to her and her family that he who he is and if the don’t like it screw the whole bunch. If the woman truly loves him she’ll tell her uppity parents to back off. If she spends her time coaching him on the proper answers at the supper table he will look pathetic.

He should find something that each parent enjoys (flyfishing, golf, sailing, horses etc) and become an expert enough on that to ask intelligent questions and carry on an intelligent conversation on the subject. Also come prepared with some interesting topics he is knowledgeable about and ask their opinion on those things. Turn the tables.

I’ve been there. Smarter than the whole bunch, but not of their lofty social status. Once they figured out I was the smart one at the table and could converse on any subject the testing stopped.

[Dr. Sivana]

I was assigned Faulkner, but never read past the first few pages once I saw that transcribed dialect ("As I Lay Dying"). On topics of literature or science, I generally found it easy to steer the subject matter into my numerous areas.

While I could more than hold my own at the dinner table on academic subject matters of general interest, I would not fare so well on table manners or being a bit too aggressive in conversation for the setting. I blame that on my own personality combined with being 5th of five born within six years. If you don't shout out, you risk not being heard. If you don't take your two allotted Ring Ding Jr.'s out of the box of 10 quickly, your big brother might take a third one.

Plus, that Walmart Store Manager gig probably pays better than the IT servicing I was doing, so it took a while for me to find the right girl.

I married up, though, because, like Captain Kirk, I changed the game. I looked only for serious Catholic girls who wanted a man willing to wait for the right girl, CHECK, knocking out 98% of competition. Her parents were on the same page. She also was and is VERY intelligent, but in different areas, so we had lots to teach each other. Finally she is tall, and that was a natural gift I could use to advantage.

So, in the greater pool of life, I was no catch. But in her (and her parents' pool) I was solid. We both married up (tall smart Catholic blondes are my weakness!)

[Dilbert San Diego]

This can be a process, to learn the family dynamics. And also, what topics are hot button issues. Politics and religion are often hot buttons, but there can be others.

Health food and vitamins were inflammatory subjects around some extended family in my experience. You sometimes have to just feel your way and learn what is acceptable so you can get along with people.

[married21]

Our daughter married down in socioeconomic status. We don’t care, but sometimes we need to be careful of his pride and self-respect. The important thing is that these two have bravely committed to marriage despite a world that is against it. I am so grateful for my son-in-law. He can rise in the world at his pace. Perfect? Ha,ha, no. Pretty darn good? Absolutely.

[Dr. Sivana]

If the woman truly loves him she’ll tell her uppity parents to back off.

A man leaves his mother and father to marry, but a woman has a natural bond to her family that is best left intact if possible. Even if the parents are uppity, it is best to be polite and civil, and to not be aggressively intelligent as long as morals aren't involved. (I had to get into it with one girl's mother because she was trying to defend withholding water from the terminally ill.)

If she tells her parents to back off, and you marry her, there could be problems down the road, even if she agrees with you. Thankfully, I have had no mother-in-law problems. My excellent wife was raised by exceptional parents, which improves the odds.

[Dilbert San Diego]

Interesting that there was an issue regarding treatment of terminally ill people. You just never know what the inflammatory issues might be. You just don’t know what land mines are out there, when you try to get involved and fit into some other family.

[Fai Mao]

My wife’s parents were dead when we married.

[7thson]

I have run across those who looked down on me. Do not know Faulkner but I do know Dickon, Doyle, Clemons, James Jones, etc. The “high brows” look down on the “low brows,” but they cannot change a tire, cannot use a hammer properly, could not change the oil in their car, and cannot fire and/or afraid of firearms.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

A man leaves his mother and father to marry, but a woman has a natural bond to her family that is best left intact if possible.

A daughter is a daughter all of her life
A son is a son until he gets him a wife

Lots of heartbreak in families who do not understand it.

One side of my clan is "Old Family" not rich or collage educated but have been farmers in the area since before it was a state.

When I brought my new husband to the reunion I rather sternly warned my aunt, the family matriarch, that I would not stand for any shenanigans. I had seen what happened to some of the new husbands and it was not going to happen to mine. Undoubtedly a bit cheeky as we were staying in her house but still.... mine. You will not touch, no, no, no.

She laughed and said no one would dare. I asked why and she said, "The man lights up when he sees you and you light up when you see him. We only test the ones we are not sure about."

[x]

You have to reach the point where you can look down on the family you married up into.

Gore Vidal made a big deal about the Founding Father’s being hypergamous, that is, marrying up, but who would dare lord it over Washington, Hamilton, Adams, or John Jay?

[alternatives?]

“A man leaves his mother and father to marry, but a woman has a natural bond to her family that is best left intact if possible.

The first is not true in all cultures nor all times. Also, many times the man is part of the family business. I would disagree many times with the latter as well. Where do you think most of the image of the meddling mother-in-law came from?

My wife and I had moved over 300/500 miles from where we grew up, which was an advantage and an attribute I was looking for.

[Dr. Sivana]

The first is not true in all cultures nor all times.

I work on the presumption that the Biblical injunctions are true. Cultures that fall short of it fall short of the ideal.

Of course there are exceptions, such as dead parents, abusive parents, etc. The meddling mother-in-law usually stems from the husband's unwillingness to keep his own mother in check. The wife's obedience to her husband should be enough to keep her mother in check.

Moving away does cut down on potential situations.

[spintreebob]

Not all men are the same. Not all women are the same.

But there is a high percentage of women who are attracted to the irresponsible, exciting, man with no dependable source of income, The result in single moms and their kids in poverty. I have noticed this problem repeatedly since ‘68. I blame the pill.

But what else has brought on this phenomen? Single women see both responsible and irresponsible men available to them. They reject the responsible that they could have and act like magnets attrdted to the irresponsible.

Can anyone explain this?

[alternatives?]

The linage of Christ specified in the Bible was largely by father. In Proverbs 4, the father passes on what he learned from his father to his son. (not his father-in-law). Not sure where you think the lineage goes predominately from the mother’s side in the Bible.

Currently, many women are very selfish toward their families. I don’t think Christ would approve. Also, I wouldn’t largely blame this selfishness on the son’s mother like you do.

[Dr. Sivana]

I wasn’t talking about lineage, I was citing Genesis. The emotional bond between mother and family, not legal lineage was what I was describing.

[T.B. Yoits]

Forget Faulkner. Read Tom Wolfe and send the snobs scurrying away.

[redangus]

From my experience the failure of the wife to defend her husband and demand her parents respect him leads to the parents believing, maybe rightly, that the daughter agrees with them. That leads to even more abuse because the parents truly believe their daughter realizes her mistake and just needs the right encouragement to rectify it.

When you love someone, you are protective of them. When you marry you always marry the family. Usually that’s not a problem, but when it is, it is encumbent on the couple to hold fast to one another as the Bible commands and be strong together against all others. To not do so set’s them up for divorce.