Posted on 08/18/2023 10:57:10 PM PDT by Saije
Not so fast, there is evidence that the colony moved all the way up Albemarle Sound. Artifacts dating to the 1580s have been found there. Also, a map in the British Museum has a patch of paper over the very spot. Upon further examination
It was discovered that under the patch there is a symbol which could represent a settlement.
https://coastallandtrust.org/sitex/
VDARE are alive and well not far from me.
/SHTF, I know where I’m headed
Thanks. It was a bunny hole I went down in 2019 for reasons that I cannot recall, but it was probably in response to a post at the time, a needed distraction from the drama (Russia collusion).
I am aware of Spanish exploits. That’s a bunny hole for another day ;-)
Speaking of Bunny Holes, I am about to dive down a giant Badger Hole, I have just acquired a book by Gavin Menzies, 1421 The Year China Discovered America, 2004. I don’t know how I missed this book, but it appears an Emperor of China decided to send at least 800 ships throughout the world to find new lands to trade with and collect tribute from. Apparently both sides of the American continents were discovered, evidence is there, as well as other far flung spaces. After 3 years some of the ships returned to China with records and evidence, but the great Emperor had died, and the collected material was destroyed.
I don’t know if I missed this because 2004 was the final year of my huspand’s slow death from Alzheimers, or because the idea of what China might do with this “evidence” was so scary that officials have decided to not mention the subject. We have Covid as a more recent example of something coming from China being hidden, destroyed, and falsified by various political and economic interests. Anyone here know about this book, or why, I as a reasonably alert history buff never heard of it? Also, since I have only skimmed through the book to get an idea of it’s contentest, if you read it what is your opinion?
The History Channel documentary about the forged “Dare Stones” was fascinating and, like the story of the Lost Colony itself, quite sad.
The "Zheng He map" In January 2006, BBC News and The Economist both published news regarding the exhibition of a Chinese sailing map claimed to be dated 1763, which was stated to be a copy of another map purportedly made in 1418. The map has detailed descriptions of both Native Americans and Native Australians. According to the map's owner, Liu Gang, a Chinese lawyer and collector, he purchased the map in 2001 for $500 USD from a Shanghai dealer.Zheng HeAfter Liu read the book "1421: The Year China discovered the World" by Gavin Menzies, he realized the significant potential value of the map. The map has been tested to verify the age of its paper, but not the ink. Even though the map has been shown to date from a period that could cover 1763, the question remains as to whether it is an accurate copy of an earlier 1418 map, or simply a copy of a contemporary 18th-century European map.
A number of authorities on Chinese history have questioned the authenticity of the map. Some point to the use of the Mercator-style projection, its accurate reckoning of longitude and its North-based orientation. None of these features was used in the best maps made in either Asia or Europe during this period (for example see the Kangnido map (1410) and the Fra Mauro (1459). Also mentioned is the depiction of the erroneous Island of California, a mistake commonly repeated in European maps from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
Geoff Wade of the Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore has strongly disputed the authenticity of the map and has suggested that it is either an 18th or 21st-century fake. He has pointed out a number of anachronisms that appear in the map and its text annotations. For example, in the text next to Eastern Europe, which has been translated as "People here mostly believe in God and their religion is called 'Jing'", Wade notes that the Chinese word for the Christian God is given as "Shang-di", which is a usage that was first coined by Jesuit missionaries in the 16th century.
In May 2006, it was reported by the Dominion Post that Fiona Petchey, head of the testing unit at Waikato University, which had carbon dated the map, had asked Gavin Menzies to remove claims from his website that the dating proved the map was genuine. The carbon dating indicated with an 80% probability a date for the paper of the map between either 1640-1690 or 1730-1810. However as the ink was not tested, it was impossible to know when it was drawn. Ms Petchey said, "we asked him to remove those, not because we were not happy with the dates, but because we were not overly happy with being associated with his interpretations of those dates."
A cursory examination suggests a glaring lack of scientific discipline pertaining to Menzies' book, more akin to Charles Berlitz.
Thank you, very interesting.
What U.S.?
You reference a map dated 1418. However, the voyages began in 1421 and return was in 1424. Therefore, the only logical conclusion if the 1418 date is correct, is that this was a map used by the 1421 explorers to further fill out their preliminary 1418 and other early information. I doubt an emperor would finance 800 or more ships based on pure speculation.
Thanks for sharing that.
In the other camp, Menzies is supporting Liu and the 1418 map with fervor. His key reasoning, forwarded by email from a member of his staff, is that "every continent, ocean, land, island, river shown on the 1418 map also appears on other Chinese maps of the same date or earlier. There is nothing new on the 1418 map—it simply combines everything on one sheet of paper," he said.Map Fuels Debate: Did Chinese Sail to New World First?Menzies also points to a Portuguese map of the Americas dating from 1419 whose mistakes—like the drawing of California as an island—are thought to have been copied from cartographic errors made by the Chinese.
"In 1419 European voyages of exploration had not started. If the 1418 map is a forgery, then the 1419 map must be as well. How do you forge something yet to be discovered," Menzies reasoned.
It's clear to me that it's likely a later forgery.
;-)
Just one man’s opinion, results of a bunny hole diversion.
Fascinating. Thanks for your post. First I’ve heard of any of this.
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